Vincent and the Doctor

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Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Hourglass on Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:07 pm

In preparation for tonight's story. What are your expectations?


Last edited by Hourglass on Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by felneymike on Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:15 pm

Flying ears

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Hourglass on Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:20 pm

I'm expecting emo BS on par with twilight, an alien to be behind the plot (as it always is these days) and for the doctor to flirt with Vincent.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:59 pm

I think your expectations have been confounded, HG. Wasn't expecting much from Curtis, but he delivered a fairly solid story which tackled depression quite well, I thought. Shame about the invisible chicken.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by felneymike on Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:55 pm

I was thinking it'd lead into the finale, but instead seems to have been the only episode so far which didn't have anything that could possibly be revisited in later episodes, not even a crack!

Looks like it's Cybermen for the finale then... meaning the mysterious cracks are actually just a gateway into the disconnected and inacessible alternate universe (nb: has already been connected to and acessed twice). A bit of a predictable cop out in the end, then... unless they have something up thier sleeves (could the smashed TARDIS be that of the Doctor in the alternate universe?).

Also the first Doctor's image showing up again... it's cool but it is possible to overdo it! (Unless perhaps he is going to put in an appearance Shocked )

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Hourglass on Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:15 pm

The paper on fire wa a potential hint of the Tardis causing these rips.

Better than expected. RTD would have truly made this dire but under Moff it worked quite well and was surprisingly deep.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by codywillis1 on Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:08 am

Barely watchable drivel.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:25 am

felneymike wrote:I was thinking it'd lead into the finale, but instead seems to have been the only episode so far which didn't have anything that could possibly be revisited in later episodes, not even a crack!

Looks like it's Cybermen for the finale then... meaning the mysterious cracks are actually just a gateway into the disconnected and inacessible alternate universe (nb: has already been connected to and acessed twice). A bit of a predictable cop out in the end, then... unless they have something up thier sleeves (could the smashed TARDIS be that of the Doctor in the alternate universe?).
I don't think it's quite that simple, as it appears the Cybermen are far from being the only monsters in the finale.

Also the first Doctor's image showing up again... it's cool but it is possible to overdo it! (Unless perhaps he is going to put in an appearance Shocked )
Overdo it? He's appeared four times in 27 years, he's hardly over exposed!

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by codywillis1 on Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:40 am

Feels like desperation to me. "We're the same show, really. No, REALLY REALLY REALLY! HONEST WE ARE, AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME, ASK MY MUM!"

Wink

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:42 am

codywillis1 wrote:Feels like desperation to me. "We're the same show, really. No, REALLY REALLY REALLY! HONEST WE ARE, AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME, ASK MY MUM!"

Wink
Getting the feeling this series can't do anything right for some...

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:13 am

I love the Hartnell cameos. He's the BEST Smile

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Sandhopper on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:56 pm

tony ingram wrote:Getting the feeling this series can't do anything right for some...
Done something really right for me eventually - after the last few weeks of almost being there. Best episode of the series, and one of the best episodes full stop.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:57 pm

Sandhopper wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Getting the feeling this series can't do anything right for some...
Done something really right for me eventually - after the last few weeks of almost being there. Best episode of the series, and one of the best episodes full stop.
Hah! I knew it'd get you in the end!

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Sandhopper on Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:05 pm

Well that was in a different league.

But believe me, I'm as pleased as you are - assuming you are - that I have a real interest in this series again.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:15 pm

Sandhopper wrote:Well that was in a different league.

But believe me, I'm as pleased as you are - assuming you are - that I have a real interest in this series again.
Perhaps we need more Richard Curtis scripts? I was not expecting to say that...

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Hourglass on Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:47 pm

The time line of this really annoyed me

1. The church was painted in 1890 AFTER Vincent cut his ear off, so why the hell does he still have it.

and most noticeably

2. The sunflowers were painted in 1888 so why was he painting them AFTER the church picture, they would have already existed.

And don't get me started on the location.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:49 pm

Hourglass wrote:The time line of this really annoyed me

1. The church was painted in 1890 AFTER Vincent cut his ear off, so why the hell does he still have it.

and most noticeably

2. The sunflowers were painted in 1888 so why was he painting them AFTER the church picture, they would have already existed.

And don't get me started on the location.
How many of the audience would be aware of the fine detail of Vincent's life? Anyway, he only cut off a slice of his ear-and expecting Tony Curran to do that would be taking method acting too far IMO!

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:17 pm

Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey.

Van Gogh never travelled through time and space in a police box either.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Hourglass on Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:54 pm

Neither was he Scottish.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:14 pm

He wasn't Scottish in this-hence asking Amy if she was from Holland like him when he heard her accent. I thought it was quite funny...

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Sandhopper on Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:27 pm

tony ingram wrote:How many of the audience would be aware of the fine detail of Vincent's life? Anyway, he only cut off a slice of his ear-and expecting Tony Curran to do that would be taking method acting too far IMO!
Plus - as Lucy alludes to, Doctor Who takes place in an alternate universe anyway. Like all pieces of fiction do really, but even moreso.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by felneymike on Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:28 pm

tony ingram wrote:

Also the first Doctor's image showing up again... it's cool but it is possible to overdo it! (Unless perhaps he is going to put in an appearance Shocked )
Overdo it? He's appeared four times in 27 years, he's hardly over exposed!

Yeah but three of those times have been in the last 2-3 months!

Oh and if you cound a drawing it was five! Razz

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:30 pm

felneymike wrote:
tony ingram wrote:

Also the first Doctor's image showing up again... it's cool but it is possible to overdo it! (Unless perhaps he is going to put in an appearance Shocked )
Overdo it? He's appeared four times in 27 years, he's hardly over exposed!

Yeah but three of those times have been in the last 2-3 months!

Oh and if you cound a drawing it was five! Razz
The old boy has a lot of catching up to do. I'm thoroughly appreciating Moffat's Hartnell agenda.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by GBF on Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:18 am

I didn't see it, but am surprised at Tony for saying how many people would know the detail about van Gogh's life...fiction can be educational too, you know. Tony's answer is rather like the present political whitewashing we have about only fighting "Nazi's" in the Second World War. We fought the Germans! And they weren't ALL Nazi's!!

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:21 am

GBF wrote:I didn't see it, but am surprised at Tony for saying how many people would know the detail about van Gogh's life...fiction can be educational too, you know. Tony's answer is rather like the present political whitewashing we have about only fighting "Nazi's" in the Second World War. We fought the Germans! And they weren't ALL Nazi's!!
Well, if you're being pedantic, not all Nazis were German! My point is, details like the precise year Sunflowers was painted don't really impact on the story being told here so why not just assume that in the universe the Doctor inhabits, he painted it a bit later?

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by GBF on Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:30 am

Pedantic?? I never said they were. If a writer is using 'real' people and 'real' events, then he/she has an obligation to get the 'real' things correct - especially when they are in the public record. As for having the Doctor in his own 'universe' is just an excuse for shoddy work! I'm quite aware that he isn't real, so why make references to 'real' things? Has nobody any imagination today? And it's dismissive of you to say "no one will know" - there's probably more people around who might see the mistake than you think. AND - if the writer knows about these events (which he obviously does) he is duty bound to get it right. It's far easier to find out when the paintings were done than which issue Sandman first appeared in wherever - and more important!

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:43 am

GBF wrote:Pedantic?? I never said they were. If a writer is using 'real' people and 'real' events, then he/she has an obligation to get the 'real' things correct - especially when they are in the public record. As for having the Doctor in his own 'universe' is just an excuse for shoddy work! I'm quite aware that he isn't real, so why make references to 'real' things? Has nobody any imagination today? And it's dismissive of you to say "no one will know" - there's probably more people around who might see the mistake than you think. AND - if the writer knows about these events (which he obviously does) he is duty bound to get it right. It's far easier to find out when the paintings were done than which issue Sandman first appeared in wherever - and more important!
Now that depends on your personal priorities: I've never rated the Impressionists (or post-Impressionists) so whether he painted Sunflowers before or after the date of this story isn't important to me. On the other hand, the fact that Sandman first appeared in the New York World's Fair Comics in 1939 is historically important to me as he was one of the earliest DC superheroes (in fact, there is some debate as to whether this story was created before or after his more often referenced 'first' appearance in Adventure Comics #40, which was actually published the following month). This isn't the first time Doctor Who has deliberately ignored minor historical inaccuracies: the clothing styles seen in 2006's 'The Girl in the Fireplace' are all wrong for that period, but Russell T Davies said he felt that what they used were styles people would more readily accept as being right for 18th Century France. It's simply dramatic licence.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by codywillis1 on Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:48 am

It's hardly the reason I thought the ep was crap, I have to say. Wink

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by GBF on Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:54 am

It's not a question of 'who rates who' (no pun intended) - it's a question of getting it right. A friend of mine who lives in California was amazed when her son came home from school and told her they had been reading about WWII (as they call it) and that it had started on 7 December 1941 - Pearl Harbour. Even Suzanne knew that WWII had started in September 1939! (Pedantic: it started in 1918 at Versailles really). If you think Sandman rates as more important that van Gogh's impact on the art world...then that says a lot about you! You'll be telling me it's more historically correct that the FF got to the moon before Neil and Buzz next!! I guess it's a person's perspective though...

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by GBF on Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:25 am

...but, I hasten to add, I think van Gogh's work is crap!!!

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:37 am

GBF wrote:It's not a question of 'who rates who' (no pun intended) - it's a question of getting it right. A friend of mine who lives in California was amazed when her son came home from school and told her they had been reading about WWII (as they call it) and that it had started on 7 December 1941 - Pearl Harbour. Even Suzanne knew that WWII had started in September 1939! (Pedantic: it started in 1918 at Versailles really). If you think Sandman rates as more important that van Gogh's impact on the art world...then that says a lot about you! You'll be telling me it's more historically correct that the FF got to the moon before Neil and Buzz next!! I guess it's a person's perspective though...
Well, technically they did, as did HG Wells' lunar explorers if we're lumping fantasy in with reality! Anyway, I wouldn't say Sandman had a more significant affect on the art world than Vincent-it's simply more important to me, since it's my area of interest.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Lucy McGough on Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:14 pm

I suppose this episode could work if you see the entire thing as being a hallucination experienced by Van Gogh.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:18 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:I suppose this episode could work if you see the entire thing as being a hallucination experienced by Van Gogh.
The creature was definitely there to on some level represent his illness, though it was clearly literally there, too. He could see it where others couldn't because of his Synesthesia. That was reading of it, anyway.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Lucy McGough on Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:09 pm

I think it was something to do with a perception filter and Van Gogh seeing the world differently from 'normal' people, 'cos of him being an artistic genius.

Or it might have been because of his mental health problems. "The sleep of reason produces monsters."

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by GBF on Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:23 pm

...nice picture of you,Luce...

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Lucy McGough on Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:36 pm

...really?

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by GBF on Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:05 pm

Yes - because you're smiling!!! Very Happy

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:34 pm

GBF wrote:Yes - because you're smiling!!! Very Happy
It's a definite improvement, I agree!

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Lucy McGough on Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:36 pm

Oh. Thanks Embarassed

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Hourglass on Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:09 pm

I've written a direct sequel to this featuring Ben Chatham. Want me to post it?

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by tony ingram on Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:38 pm

Hourglass wrote:I've written a direct sequel to this featuring Ben Chatham. Want me to post it?
Yes. Preferably in a plain brown envelope to Outer Mongolia.

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Lucy McGough on Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:03 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ lol!

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Re: Vincent and the Doctor

Post by Hourglass on Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:53 pm

I take that as a no.

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