Last Who You Watched

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by BluesShark on Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:54 am

tony ingram wrote:Dodo's eventual fate (or one account of it) is revealed in the 1996 novel 'Who Killed Kennedy', the authr of which appears not to like her very much. After years in therapy following a breakdown caused by WOTAN, she is eventually murdered by the Master. Which is a little rough, even if she was annoying.

I think something much more interesting than that would be more appropriate. But hey ho, that's just me.

Finished Varos. Far, far at too didactic (though still some stretch behind RTD's worse scripts 'with a point') but enjoyable nonetheless. The interesting thing for me is that I really did dislike CB when these things first aired and the three I've watched recently - Revelation, Varos and Two Doctors have been pretty good. I may be being influenced by a friend of mine whose first exposure to Who was CB and so he is very much 'her' Doctor.

Grade is a grade A sh*t of a human being. His single-handed destruction of Baker's career is despicable, and part of me can't help wondering if he'd been paying less attention to deliberately destroying a generally successful and popular programme (even then it was huge overseas success and VHS was giving it further life) in pursuit of a pathetic personal vendetta he might have known a little more about things that were going on elsewhere his 'family entertainment' division.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by Lucy McGough on Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:59 am

I must say, I do like Revelation and Varos, although they are grim. But I bet they'd be even better with a different Doctor in them Razz

Maybe Mr Grade knew and just didn't care. Ratings, innit.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:10 am

I've detested Grade since the eighties, and no interview or TV appearance with him that I've ever seen has shaken my conviction that he's an arrogant, bullying snob with no real regard for anyone or anything that isn't Michael Grade. Sorry, but that's just how I feel.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by Lucy McGough on Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:35 am

You reckon any of us are going to argue with you?

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by alanultron5 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:32 pm

What showed Mr Grade in a his `worst colours` was that show that Paul Merton took over where guests send their six pet hates to a dungeon. Mr Grade slated the show for having a cheap budget and limited resources.

Surel Paul Merton could have asked - well you allocated budgets on BBC1 ? That's why it was so underfunded.

I also regard Jonathan Powell as culpable as Grade! It wasn't so well known untill DWB magazine publicised that Mr Powell disliked the show even worse that Grade! Powells performance on the `Ultimate Foe` extra is sheer dissembling! He's a very dishonest man regarding what he `recalls` about the dismissal of Colin Baker.

Regarding Colin. I really did not like him in his debut and not much in what I saw of season 22 (which I must admit was barely half the episodes) However, I thought he was far better in season 23 (The Trial) The "Stackyard, Knackersyard" stuff was Eric Sawards hackneyed writing; I think Colin should have told Saward to cut it out, but apart from that he is (in my view) a superb 6th Doctor in season 23. I even like the `humerous` scenes with Bonnie Langford; I'd rather have those than his early season 22 of bullying Peri.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by alanultron5 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:40 pm

I should have put it in this thread- but just to repeat; have thoroughly enjoyed "Ambassadors of Death" DVD last week. It was a show that back in 1970 I utterly loved! It has faults in plot, but has a `feel` to it unlike any other Dr Who show i've ever watched.

This story has a strangeness about it that I always find intriguing. What exactly the aliens are and what they look like is kept to a bare minimum which I think really works! They are truly `alien` and the accompanying shimmering musical score by Dudley Simpson when they appear is spine tingling.

The `inside the capsule` scenes of Van Lyden (Episode one) and the Doctor (Episodes 5 & 6) are so believable. Not to denigrate it - but compare the Space capsule scenes in "The Seeds of Death" Doctor, Zoe & Jamie to those in ` Ambassadors` and it is like watching a totally different show.

The info text states that Episode one was screened to a convention of European television executives to unanimous acclaim. So i'm not the only one to rate this `very` highly.


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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:47 pm

Ambassadors of Death always feels to me more like some of the other shows of the time, like Doomwatch, than it does like traditional Doctor Who (whatever that is) but that's in no way a criticism. I think the whole of season 7 ranks up there with the best of early 70s sci-fi, and that was a very good period for TV sci-fi. It's a shame the following year abandoned that rather edgy new approach in favour of the cosy 'UNIT family' set-up...

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by BluesShark on Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:13 pm

Grade, Powell and Saward all come out of the affair looking pretty bad to varying degrees.

It's a pretty dark era in Who's history.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:23 am

I think what's important to remember is that Who was just one of a number of long running shows - like Juliet Bravo and Crackerjack - which were also targeted for the axe by Grade. It was all the 80s yuppie "piss on the past and put our own stamp on it" mentality. It only became personal for Grade, I believe, after the massive media and public outcry that made him look like a twat. And what does any talentless, mediocre halfwit executive type do when caught with his pants down? It's not to take responsibility and admit to making a ****-up, it's to pass the buck. So that's when the public vilification of the show and production team started. What does irk me is how many fans - conveniently the ones who don't like the era anyway, of course - accept this as being what really happened. Then again, there's no limit to stupidity, as people like Grade rising to such positions is proof enough of to start with.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by BluesShark on Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:23 am

codywillis1 wrote:It only became personal for Grade, I believe, after the massive media and public outcry that made him look like a twat.

I stand to be corrected but I think it got 'personal' for Grade when he became involved in a relationship with Colin Baker's ex-wife, Lisa Goddard.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:05 am

BluesShark wrote:
codywillis1 wrote:It only became personal for Grade, I believe, after the massive media and public outcry that made him look like a twat.

I stand to be corrected but I think it got 'personal' for Grade when he became involved in a relationship with Colin Baker's ex-wife, Lisa Goddard.
I think that may indeed have had a lot to do with it.


Last edited by tony ingram on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by alanultron5 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:25 pm

I never knew that! Wow!! But to add, Jonathan Powell was every much too blame as Grade. When Powell bacame controller the show had no chance of returning as long as he was in that post.

I just found Grade's comments when talking to Paul Merton about how `cheap budget` the show was - utter cant! He and Powell were strangling the show financially.

Referring back to "Ambassadors of death" Tony, on the info text it states that costs were shared with "Doomwatch" with the space capsules (models & sets) for that shows "Re-entry Forbidden" That episode was about a stranded space shot! An amazing coincidence that `Dr Who` & `Doomwatch` were producing those shows just at the height of the Apollo 13 crisis. In fact the `extra` on Disc 2 of `Ambassadors` includes & compares the Apollo crises with the Dr Who episode.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:44 pm

alanultron5 wrote:I never knew that! Wow!! But to add, Jonathan Powell was every much too blame as Grade. When Powell bacame controller the show had no chance of returning as long as he was in that post.

I just found Grade's comments when talking to Paul Merton about how `cheap budget` the show was - utter cant! He and Powell were strangling the show financially.
Curiously, something very close to the term "utter cant" pops into my head every time I hear Grade speak...


Referring back to "Ambassadors of death" Tony, on the info text it states that costs were shared with "Doomwatch" with the space capsules (models & sets) for that shows "Re-entry Forbidden" That episode was about a stranded space shot! An amazing coincidence that `Dr Who` & `Doomwatch` were producing those shows just at the height of the Apollo 13 crisis.
I think 'serendipity' is the word. Smile

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by alanultron5 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:04 pm

I had to be careful when I typed that phrase! Smile

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by alanultron5 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:38 pm

I've just started on the `Key to Time` season box I just got. "Ribos Operation" was better than I recalled. Though the humour was becoming more pronounced there were some very well acted scenes of pathos I thought! Unstaff telling Binro he was "Right" about the stars was a very nice touch.

Surprisingly the scene when the Graff's General "Shealac` (sic) is mortally wounded by the roof fall gave Paul Seed a touching scene that showed just a chink of light in the Graff's otherwise tyrannical personna.

The `Pirate Planet` was pretty decent, but I was a bit let down by what seemed to me a rushed ending! Was the `Nurse/Queen` killed?


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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:43 pm

I think Paul Seed's portrayal of the Graff's final descent into madnessis one of the best performances in Who history. It's perfect.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by alanultron5 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:44 pm

Definately Tony! He was great, and went out with quite a bang!!

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:49 am

Ribos is one of my absolute favourite stories of all time - top 10 stuff without a doubt. Wonderful atmosphere, humour, drama, great characters and actors and typically delicious Holmes dialogue. Glorious. Smile

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:07 am

Definitely an underrated classic. And Garron and Unstoffe are a terrific double act (though not quite up there with Jago and Litefoot).

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by alanultron5 on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:07 pm

Just got through the `Stones of Blood` Thought it superb until the `trial` with the Justice Machines! Oh dear!! That really spoiled it for me! Much of this story was in the mood of seasons 13/14 but that part! For me, it was like Douglas Adams on `speed` really undermined the lovely mood of the story till that point! Up till then story was superb I thought!

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:21 pm

Well to be fair it probably was Douglas Adams on speed...

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by alanultron5 on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:31 pm

I pondered that possibility Tony! It was a pity as those scenes seemed out of place in that story! Had such scenes been part of a season 17 story they may well have worked. Its just that `Stones` seemed that it was going to be the one `serious` gothic styled story of the `Key` season and the Megara stuff rather ruined what had been a really terrific story till then!

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:33 pm

I think Ribos had a gothic feel to it...

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by BluesShark on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:16 am

First off, Image of the Fendahl. Allowing for some dodgy special effects, really rather good. Lovely performance from Audrey Heard as Ma Taylor.

Then, to my suprise, given free range of the video collection, my wife chose Resurrection of the Daleks. I know a lot of people hate this story (a friend of mine describes it as 'macho bullsh*t') but I still really like it. There is some awful dialogue but the concept is strong and Terry Molloy's performance is wonderfully tonto. I also love the locations shooting in the docks before they were renovated. Very atmospheric.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:21 am

Seeing the London docks like that always gets me nostalgiac. But really, that's only the cherry on top of this particular cake-I love Resurrection, from Terry's amazingly OTT Davros to Bewes's s-s-s-stammering S-S-S-Stein. Even Turlough gets the odd good line! Razz

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:39 am

Sorry, I think it's dire! Wink

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by BluesShark on Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:31 pm

Ark in Space. Meh. Felt sorry for Ian Marter who was made redundant by the casting of Tom Baker before he'd really even been given a chance, and couldn't shake the feeling that a large part of the plot was lifted from an old Quatermass script they found down the back of the sofa.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by BluesShark on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:44 am

Leisure Hive. I think that the fact that it took me over a week to e bothered to watch the final episode says it all really.

If JNT thought using the word Tachyon was really 'grounding the show in real science' he was rather sadly mistaken.

Just really, really dull to be honest, though the extra about costume design was quite interesting.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:49 am

TLH: After the fizz and fun of season 17, Bidmead and JNT arrive like the miserable old relatives determined to put a stop to the party. Sad


It''s also bloody boring. Even Tom looks fed up to buggery.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:57 am

codywillis1 wrote:TLH: After the fizz and fun of season 17, Bidmead and JNT arrive like the miserable old relatives determined to put a stop to the party. Sad


It''s also bloody boring. Even Tom looks fed up to buggery.
I remember having completely the opposite reaction at the time. Aged 11, I was delighted Doctor Who was taking itself seriously and trying to be 'proper' science fiction after the embarrassing excesses of the previous year (even though I now love season 17). You really couldn't admit to being a Doctor Who fan in the playground without being ridiculed after The Horns of Nimon.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by BluesShark on Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:55 pm

A bit unfair. Horns of Nimon might be sh*te but it has the wonderful Graham Crowden in, which puts it several light years ahead of Leisure Hive.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:59 pm

BluesShark wrote:A bit unfair. Horns of Nimon might be sh*te but it has the wonderful Graham Crowden in, which puts it several light years ahead of Leisure Hive.
From an adult perspective, yes. But when you're 11, it's very important that the object of your obsession takes itself totally seriously.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:38 am

The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon. Despite being extremely convoluted, and far too linked in to the ultimately underwhelming series 6 ''arc'' story, this 2 parter is still fabulous stuff and perhaps the last truly great story of the current era to date. Epic, demented, with bags of atmosphere and some genuinely creepy moments, plus a great guest actor/character in Mark Sheppard's savvy disgraced FBI agent (shame they haven't had him back actually). I particularly like his no-nonsense, casual blowing away of the Silent. "Welcome to America". As a 60s Yank Brigadier, he'd be rather good.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:46 am

I rather liked Clanton in this, but I'm not sure I'd like him as a recurring character. He's a bit too brash for my tastes. Great story, though (but then, I liked pretty much all of series 6) .

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:32 pm

Survival. Superb.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:00 am

codywillis1 wrote:Survival. Superb.
Whatever happened to Hale & Pace?

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:12 am

They're still around, aren't they?
They toured Australia last year, I think.

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:28 am

I haven't seen or heard of them in years...

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:25 pm

Mysterious Planet.


Um.... it's a bit crap, innit?

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:58 am

codywillis1 wrote:Mysterious Planet.


Um.... it's a bit crap, innit?
Yes, but in a mysterious way!

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:09 pm

The mystery being, presumably, WHY is it so crap? Wink

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:20 pm

You guys are being too harsh. How can you not warm to a story that contains the line, "Perhaps at last we shall find the habitat of the Canadian goose!"?

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:41 am

The script is largely fine, if a bit ordinary for Holmes. It's the production that's appalling! I can't stop laughing at the guards who wander around the underground with lights in their helmets WHEN IT'S FLOODLIT!
Did NO ONE go "Hang on a mo', the script specifies lights in their helmets - don't you reckon it ought to be dark down here, den?" Wink

I feel bad for Colin too. The costume was always a problem, but he largely got away with it in season 22. Here, with his weight gain, his ludicrous floppy, permed and dyed hair do it combines with the castration of the badass Doctor into a fluffy bunny wabbit to make him look and seem ridiculous. Sad

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:02 am

Actually, as I recall, the only thing that struck me about the costume at the time that year was "I prefer the red tie to the blue one".

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by Lucy McGough on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:32 am

Don't be a silly sausage. If it were dark in the tunnels, how could the viewers see what was going on? There is no excuse for poor lighting. Even inhabitants of a post-apocalyptic dystopia have standards Razz

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by BluesShark on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:43 am

I didn't mind Mysterious Planet when I watched it recently. The whole Trial thing is a curate's egg, with Terror of the Vervoids being nearly unwatcheable imho.

What is odd about MP is how much it feels like a re-tread of The Krotons, which I saw recently as well.


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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:25 pm

Picked up the Shada/MTTYITT set last week. Nice extras. It is too bad we didn't Levine's Shada animation (maybe one day?) but I'm not bleating like some as I've always loved the 92 version anyway and to have it all nice and cleaned up on shiny disc is fine with me. Smile

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by tony ingram on Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:03 am

I was watching part of this last night-the Nick Courtney tribute. A nice addition to the set I thought, with some footage of Nick we hadn't previously seen, which was very welcome. The 'Doctor Who Divas' thing was a bit pointless, though...

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:55 am

I didn't watch that one. Sounds abysmal... Wink

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Re: Last Who You Watched

Post by codywillis1 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:56 am

Some naughty chap leaked the Ian Levine animated Mission to the Unknown ep today, which ended up on YT quicksmart. Probably already gone, but not before half of fandom downloaded it. I thought it was very good actually, the animation is probably superior to Reign and I don't know why it hasn't been picked up by the Beeb as yet. I certainly wouldn't mind see the rest of DMP (and all the others, come to that!) done in this style.

Now we just need someone to leak his Shada too. naughty

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Re: Last Who You Watched

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