Earth-2 is coming!

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:41 am

Perhaps we should rename this thread 'Earth-2 is here, and we don't like it!'

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:29 am

Lucy McGough wrote:Perhaps we should rename this thread 'Earth-2 is here, and we don't like it!'
Well, to be totally accurate it would have to be "Earth 2 is Coming but it Ain't Earth 2".

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:32 am

It's 'E-2INO', or 'Earth-2 In Name Only'.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:34 am

Lucy McGough wrote:It's 'E-2INO', or 'Earth-2 In Name Only'.
I like that. I vote for that as its new, 'official' name! Razz

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:38 am

But how would we pronounce it? "Ee-too-eye-no"? Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:51 am

Since everything seems to be geared towards dark and depressing there now, maybe just change it from "E2" to "Emo"...

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:54 am

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner! Very Happy

We can refer to the Earth-2 versions of the characters as Emo Superman, Emo Batman, etc.

"I am Emo Superman, and I kill people because my beloved is dead, and killing people will somehow bring her back... er...."

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:46 pm

Emo dos.

And after convincing Tony to stay at that other site, I have officially resigned. Sad

Oh, well, I'll continue to post here with like-minded souls.

EDIT: You know it's okay to disagree. Tony and I have had knock-down drag out fights in the past. But I think we both respect each other's opinions and the zeal we have for the JSA. And I never created another ID to just to win an argument with him. Oh, well! Happy posting!

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by Mbast1 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:42 am

freedumbdclxvi wrote:but i can't stand the asinine behavior of a number of internet tough guys.

Oh, if only I were in a bad enough mood to want to list those behaviors...

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:20 am

randy77tx wrote:Emo dos.

And after convincing Tony to stay at that other site, I have officially resigned. Sad

Oh, well, I'll continue to post here with like-minded souls.

EDIT: You know it's okay to disagree. Tony and I have had knock-down drag out fights in the past. But I think we both respect each other's opinions and the zeal we have for the JSA. And I never created another ID to just to win an argument with him. Oh, well! Happy posting!
Amen to that. And I've never quite understood the point of having multiple accounts. But then I've never really understood the anonymity thing, either; the only reason I'm tingramretro on some sites is because my real name (which seems to be quite common) is unavailable and presumably already taken! Why did you leave the other place in the end, Randy? Purely because of the Robinson/JSA argument? It did get a little ridiculous, admittedly...

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:45 pm

I was just going to ignore the situation but something else happened that I can't discuss here. So, I took myself out of the game.

Hope to post here later today how I would like to have seen the whole Earth-2/Worlds'Finest played out. Alas, it's saved on my flashdrive which I left at work.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:53 pm

I know at least one other poster over there was getting abusive emails...

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:51 pm

Notice how I concede and it all goes quiet. The "two" gripers are gone. POOF! Gone. Disappeared. Wonder what would happen if I made a post?

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:56 pm

randy77tx wrote:Notice how I concede and it all goes quiet. The "two" gripers are gone. POOF! Gone. Disappeared. Wonder what would happen if I made a post?
Two? Are you sure? Razz

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:51 pm

Well, saw them in different forums. I think they're the same person.

Try to post some things tomorrow. Swamped at work.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:50 pm

The first indications of Earth-2 and Worlds' Finest were exciting. Then the news came that it was not what we were both hoping for and expecting.

If I were doing Earth-2 and Worlds' Finest, I'd do it this way. First, I'd go back to Gardner Fox's alternating lineup and focus on 7-8 members. These 7-8 members might change from time to time. The JSA is large, but Paul Levitz was a master of balancing these characters by keeping some in the background, and gradually working them into the plot. Second, I'd go back the 70s formula of old heroes and new heroes, but the not the Superfriends training-type stories where we have issues about Stargirl's bad days at school or Cyclone's constant squealing. I would introduced a group of heroes that reflect the original lineup and go from there. Old heroes and new heroes with old names.

First, Jay Garrick, the Flash: the fastest man alive. He's the backbone of the group, and mentor.


Dr. Fate, Kent V. Nelson. Not my favorite Dr. Fate, but sometimes Kent Nelson overshadowed the JSA, so a less powerful Dr. Fate might be better for the team.


I like Rick Tyler as Hourman, so he's in.


And Sand and/or Sandman had so much potential when JSA began but he got lost somewhere. I'd bring him back. I always liked Sandy.


No one was a better Spectre than Jim Corrigan, and his best was when he was played as an unsympathetic ghost. The Spectre of Adventure Comics was my favorite. He could be scary and dark but not going to the extremes of today.


Since they killed off Alan Scott, I'd just incorporate the Kyle Rayner from John Byrne's Generations series. But I'd get rid of the horrid outfit Byrne designed.


To Be Continued...

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:59 pm

The Atom. Not sure where I found this design but I like it. Modern with a feel for the past. Haven't figured out the new Atom's background.


Hawkman was always my favorite JSAer. I loved when he got the golden helmet in the 70s. I liked the Egyptian feel it gave him. I saw this design and liked it. It was different. I'd somehow bring Carter Hall back and none of that Kartar Hol crap, etc. Give me the real Hawkman.


There could be redesigns. No problems there. But when redesigns don't fit the characters, era, world, theme, etc., they're useless.

I said post-Crisis continuity could be back retconned to Earth-Two, but some substitutions would have to be made. There has been too much interaction between the Trinity and the JSA to ignore them. They would have to be reintroduced. I hated to see the SuperSons totally dismissed. Earth-Two did have a future that included descendants of Superman and Batman. So, I'd incorporate the SuperSons to Earth-Two. Only change is that I'd give Batman an origin closer to Damian Wayne so not to conflict with Huntress.





For a Wonder Woman substitute, I'd use Nubia. All these would be honorary members, and not really active, but they fill in the blanks for post-Crisis Trinity appearances.



To Be Continued ...

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:01 pm

Finally (well, I might add more later) ... Worlds' Finest. I liked this idea until it all became goofy with Supergirl and Robin. It could still work. These are just a couple alternate designs I found and liked. At least Power Girl isn't so top-heavy she'd be grounded.

I had such high hopes for Earth-2 and Worlds' Finest. Oh, well, I have this, don't I?




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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:29 pm

I really, really like this. Though I feel I should point out that Alan Scott wasn't actually killed; he discorporated, sure, but Scott's body was composed of Starheart energy and energy cannot be destroyed. I think he'd pull himself together again, given time and maybe a little help from Fate or the Spectre.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:02 pm

True. But this was just sort of a rebuttal to what DC is doing. As an alternative, they could really have done some good work. They could have kept the premise, kept new designs, and with a little back retconning, had a couple of good titles that continued the JSA legacy. Instead, we get an Elseworlds title or two.

Thanks, though.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:15 pm

The Hawkman and Huntress designs are great. Though i still wish someone would resurrect Carter's metallic helmet from the 70's...

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:53 pm

If that design had Hawkman's golden helmet, it'd be perfect.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:00 pm

randy77tx wrote:If that design had Hawkman's golden helmet, it'd be perfect.
Agreed. Not sure about Power Girl's outfit covering her legs though. Too much white, I think.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:31 pm

I chose that one because it was one of the few designs where her breasts weren't so ginormous. It's one thing to have a well-developed character, but she was beginning to border on being a caricature. The new PG costume isn't that bad but I can't really see the real Power Girl wearing it. I guess I keep thinking back to All-Star Comics #64 when Star-Spangled Kid gave her a Power Girl emblem modeled after Kal-L's.

For Batman and Superman I tried finding designs that reflected a 2nd generation. I really didn't want to use the DCnU Superman design. However, I do think I am going to like Henry Cavill's Superman costume.

But thanks for the kind words. Means a lot coming from a devoted fan. I think you see where I was going with this. DC could have kept all the redesigns and plots but still please older fans.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:34 pm

Sigh.


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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:36 pm

With a little thought, yes they could have. Unfortunately, I don't think pleasing older fans factored into their thinking for a second. I think Didio and Lee basically want to pretend that the Silver Age was the Golden Age because that's the period they remember fondly, and that every other character is new, if that makes sense.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by Mbast1 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:27 pm

randy77tx wrote:DC could have kept all the redesigns and plots but still please older fans.

That was amazing. A LOT of thought went into it, it's obvious, and it is really well done. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by Mbast1 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:29 pm

tony ingram wrote:I think Didio and Lee basically want to pretend that the Silver Age was the Golden Age

It's weird. During Infinite Crisis the Superman they called "Kal-L" really wasn't the one from pre-COIE. He was an amalgam of the E-1 and E-2 versions, as though they thought anything pre-COIE was the same. It was bad storytelling, true, but it was also just plain strange.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:56 pm

I think we may just be getting old... maybe the current crop of creators genuinely don't remember?

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by Mbast1 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:56 am

tony ingram wrote:I think we may just be getting old... maybe the current crop of creators genuinely don't remember?

Entirely possible. But, I think Johns is only a few years younger than me. I think he just changed things to fit the plot, characters and all, he'd already had created for the story.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:48 am

You're probably right. The Kal-L I remember would not have behaved as he did in IC, and I didn't appreciate the changes to Alex and Superboy, either.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:45 pm

Mbast1, thanks. I appreciate the kind words from both you and Tony. I know when I posted ideas at the old DC board it often met with ridicule. I guess it's the younger readers/fans.

And I agree that Johns twisted things to fit his stories. I recently re-read a JSA story and it was filled with errors.

Ready for more of my Earth-Two madness?

Finally came up with an origin for Atom. Tony and I discussed the friendship Atom and Wildcat had in the 90s JSA and I thought Al Pratt's origin is timeless. There's always some runt who gets bullied in school. And what if Ted Grant saw something in persecuted kid and trains him to be the new Atom. (Actually, I was thinking about one kid on campus here -- I work in a university library -- who is gay and was getting a hard time, so the new Atom could be the JSA's first true gay character and not retconned or revised like Obsidian was.)

And Ted Grant doesn't need a revised costume.


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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:52 pm

I mentioned I wasn't too pleased with Superman (II or Jr.?) 's costume. I wanted it to look 2nd generation but I wanted it to reflect Henry Cavill's costume more than the DCnU version. While researching, I found one I think I like better. What do you think?



At first, I wasn't sure about Nubia. And for a while to make things work, I thought about combining elements from Wonder Woman #269-271 and the TV series. Wonder Woman's sister Drucilla takes her place. Steve Trevor from a parallel world crashes on Paradise Island and that fills the Wonder Woman void.





(Mindwarp is a Trevor stand-in, by the way.)

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:57 pm

And if the Trinity is reborn, then so should their foes (and Luthor and Joker did have some dealing with the JSA after all). That Five Earths fanfiction gave Luthor a daughter, and I thought it might be interesting if the Trinity's foes were gender reversed.







(And for depiction purposes, Contessa Erica Alexandra Del Portenza stands in for a female Luthor.)

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:59 pm

The Superman costume looks a little too 'busy' for my tastes, but Wonder Woman is perfect. Aside from the dark hair, it reminds me a little of the Cathy Crosby TV movie version...

Would that be Lena Luthor, then? Or would she be Lex as in Alexandra?

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:06 pm

More JSA.

I would keep Black Canary on Earth-Two.



If Green Arrow survived the Crisis, maybe he updated his costume after meeting the Earth-One Green Arrow. If not, maybe Speedy succeeded him. Point is, I'd like to keep Black Canary on Earth-Two.



I think you can tell I didn't like Earth-One getting the JSA's members. I'd return Red Tornado to Earth-Two while I'm at it.



Finally, I always loved Aquaman. Not everyone's favorite, and always someone to make fun of, but I liked him. And for years it was "There's no Aquaman on Earth-Two!!!". But Roy Thomas managed to squeeze him in at the end. So, I want an Earth-Two Aquaman. I'll let him be an honorary member.


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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:08 pm

Ah, now here we have a problem. I don't mind what else you do with Aquaman's costume, but if this is the Earth Two Aquaman, he should have yellow gloves! Tradition is important...

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:09 pm

tony ingram wrote:The Superman costume looks a little too 'busy' for my tastes, but Wonder Woman is perfect. Aside from the dark hair, it reminds me a little of the Cathy Crosby TV movie version...

Would that be Lena Luthor, then? Or would she be Lex as in Alexandra?

I was thinking Lena, but they called her Alexis. A little too Joan Collins for my tastes.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:10 pm

tony ingram wrote:Ah, now here we have a problem. I don't mind what else you do with Aquaman's costume, but if this is the Earth Two Aquaman, he should have yellow gloves! Tradition is important...

LOL. Aquaman, Sr. has yellow gloves!

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:13 pm

randy77tx wrote:
tony ingram wrote:The Superman costume looks a little too 'busy' for my tastes, but Wonder Woman is perfect. Aside from the dark hair, it reminds me a little of the Cathy Crosby TV movie version...

Would that be Lena Luthor, then? Or would she be Lex as in Alexandra?

I was thinking Lena, but they called her Alexis. A little too Joan Collins for my tastes.
Heh. A Luthor in huge shoulder pads (green and purple, of course) and with eighties hair. I'd pay to see that...

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:16 pm

Finally, if you have a new Batman, you have to have a Robin. Maybe ol' Dick Grayson had a son. Wasn't that an imaginary story from the 60s? Or maybe Generations?



Last, but not least, I really wanted Batwing or whoever that was at the end of JSA to be Blackwing from the Huntress series. He could have changed his name to Nightwing, and Earth-Two's Bette Kane could be Flamebird.





There you go. My re-envisioned Earth-Two. A couple more additions later, but right now, thanks for the kind words and allowing me to post! Very Happy

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:17 pm

tony ingram wrote:
randy77tx wrote:
tony ingram wrote:The Superman costume looks a little too 'busy' for my tastes, but Wonder Woman is perfect. Aside from the dark hair, it reminds me a little of the Cathy Crosby TV movie version...

Would that be Lena Luthor, then? Or would she be Lex as in Alexandra?

I was thinking Lena, but they called her Alexis. A little too Joan Collins for my tastes.
Heh. A Luthor in huge shoulder pads (green and purple, of course) and with eighties hair. I'd pay to see that...

Literally LOL. I could see the green and purple shoulder padded costume with big hair but ... come on, she's gotta be bald!!!

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:19 pm

I love Betty/Bette. If she can't be Bat-Girl, Flamebird is a more than acceptable substitute. And yeah, Red Tornado should be there too. I like your ideas for the most part, Randy; they're certainly better than the versions DC seems intent on giving us...

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:25 pm

Thanks. As the release date for Earth-2 and Worlds' Finest approaches, I'm just a bit melancholy. I had high hopes. It's all over now except for my dreams. I have a villain or two to update and explain their Earth-Two presence and then explain how Earth-Two could have a Captain Marvel and Black Adam. That's coming later.

Thanks again!

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by Lucy McGough on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:39 pm

tony ingram wrote:I like your ideas for the most part, Randy
Same here.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:23 pm

Thanks again for the kind words.

This is my last for a while. Since Captain Marvel and Black Adam were large parts in the JSA, finding alternatives for them in order to keep Earths Two and S separate became a challenge. Bear with me on this one, friends.

For Captain Marvel, I went with Roy Thomas' 80s alternative, and for Black Adam, I went with Alex Ross' Black Vulcan take. I could have used the new versions, but really wanted Earth-S to be separate.

PreCrisis Isis though was limited to Filmation's creation which DC doesn't own, so I guess the recent version will do.

And here's a reinterpretation of Baron Blitzkrieg I found online.








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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:28 pm

Oh, those are great! I really like CM and the Baron... Very Happy

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by Mbast1 on Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:55 pm

randy77tx wrote:PreCrisis Isis though was limited to Filmation's creation which DC doesn't own

This is an aside, I guess, but I'm really starting to love Filmation. The more of their stuff I see, the more I like it.

As to your work, damn but it's good. If this is the stuff you were going to use for fan fiction, sign me up to read it. It would be great!

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by tony ingram on Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:31 pm

What he said.

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Re: Earth-2 is coming!

Post by randy77tx on Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:06 pm

Thanks again. I really appreciate it.

I have more to post but I'm totally covered up at work. Maybe next week.

Thanks.

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