The Shadow

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The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:47 pm

Is anyone else planning on picking up Garth Ennis's new Shadow series from Dynamite? Looks pretty good to me, though I know some Shadow purists are complaining that his research for the series has basically amounted to checking out previous comics incarnations rather than reading over three hundred pulp novels...


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Re: The Shadow

Post by Sam_Vimes on Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:57 am

I added it to my pull list almost as soon as it was announced. I kind of had to, considering I named my son after him. I also added an extra copy for my sister, because we're both fans and I needed to get her a birthday present anyway.

As for Garth's research I can't say that I blame him. As good as the pulps are, that version of the character is certainly not the most popular version. I just hope he's at least somewhat familiar with the non-comic book media, though, so he can make some kind of artful mish-mash or something. I think the Orson Welles and Alec Baldwin versions were particularly full of good ideas, for instance.

(And no, I'm not kidding about my son. His name is, in fact, "Shadow".)


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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:02 am

I'm glad for your son's sake that you weren't a major fan of the Green Hornet instead... Razz

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Sam_Vimes on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:07 am

Oh, but I am! I just like Kato more, which is why my daughter was named Dragon. You know. . .after Bruce Lee.

My wife really needs to step in when we're naming the next one, I think. . . .

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:12 am

Dragon...Shadow...you're raising a couple of potential Ninja mercenaries, you know that, right? Nobody called 'Shadow' is going to grow up to become an accountant! And you're more or less obligated to call the next one 'Scorpion' or something; Dragon, Shadow and Derek just doesn't work...

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Sam_Vimes on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:21 am

Oh, I know. Now that we've dabbled in the weird names we'll have to see it through to the bitter end. For the sake of symmetry we're pretty much locked in. My poor children. . . .

Well, at least they'll be ninjas!

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Mbast1 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:03 am

Sam_Vimes wrote:As for Garth's research I can't say that I blame him. As good as the pulps are, that version of the character is certainly not the most popular version. I just hope he's at least somewhat familiar with the non-comic book media, though, so he can make some kind of artful mish-mash or something. I think the Orson Welles and Alec Baldwin versions were particularly full of good ideas, for instance.

I LOVE the Alec Baldwin movie, I truly do. I also like the Chaykin version, and have listened to the radio shows often. I have read The Shadow Unmasks (which makes me wonder who his 3rd "real" identity was...), but didn't like the writing. So, I'll probably pick this up. Sounds fun.
I don't know. On some level I feel for the purists, but as I've said before, a new version doesn't destroy the version you like. It's not as though we're going to get a movie version that's just like the pulps. Some "new" versions are really good. I like Dennis O'Neill's Question at least as much as Ditko's, for example. I'll just take the series as it comes, and like it or not.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:00 am

Finally got my copy yesterday and absolutely loved it. Admittedly, t isn't 100% faithful to the pulps, but then I doubt it would have sold as well if it were. And I thin k Ennis has really nailed the Shadow as a character. Loved the scene where he mowed down a crowd of hired thugs while somehow shooting around the one guy who'd surrendered!

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Mbast1 on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:21 am

tony ingram wrote:Is anyone else planning on picking up Garth Ennis's new Shadow series from Dynamite? Looks pretty good to me, though I know some Shadow purists are complaining that his research for the series has basically amounted to checking out previous comics incarnations rather than reading over three hundred pulp novels...

I've tried to read the pulps (as well as the 1960s revivals) and they're badly written. Badly.
I did pick up the first issue, and I enjoyed it. Enough to keep me going, but it wasn't fantastic. It may turn out that way in the end, we'll see.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:38 am

There's one Shadow purist on another forum who was complaining a few days ago that Ennis's Margo Lane deviates too much from the personality of the one in the books. Which surprised me, as from what little I recall of the pulps, the original Margo didn't have a personality...

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Sam_Vimes on Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:33 am

I wanted the next issue immediately. That's the highest praise I can give a comic, I think.

As for Margo. . .yeah, I'm not sure what "personality" she's supposed to have. She's always just been a device to keep The Shadow from talking to himself all the time (I actually think that might literally be why she was included in the radio show).

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:16 am

I rather like the new relationship she and the Shadow have. It really brings out the fact that he's pretty much detached from normal human emotions, the way he seems to see her sleeping with him as just another of her duties as his agent. Or maybe I'm misjudging him...

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Mbast1 on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:21 pm

tony ingram wrote:Or maybe I'm misjudging him...

If you are it's because it's written that way.
Yeah, I find it odd that people would complain about her personality. I think people "add in" characteristics to some characters and then think they're really there.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:39 pm

I've noticed that phenomenon before. Who was that guy on the old DC message boards who was obsessed with Rex Tyler and insisted that he was "addicted to being a superhero " despite the character having been semi-retired for about forty years?

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Mbast1 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:58 pm

tony ingram wrote:Who was that guy on the old DC message boards who was obsessed with Rex Tyler and insisted that he was "addicted to being a superhero " despite the character having been semi-retired for about forty years?

I'm not sure, but that's a great example. People seem to have difficulty differentiating between what's in their heads and what's actually on the page.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:50 pm

Another: I could be wrong about this, but...has it actually ever been definitively stated, in print, that Blue Jay is gay?

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Sam_Vimes on Wed May 23, 2012 1:49 pm

No, that's just wishful thinking or something. The comics have never gone there when it comes to Blue Jay, so it seems that many fans simply went there FOR them. "Head canon", I think that's called.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Wed May 23, 2012 1:59 pm

Sam_Vimes wrote:No, that's just wishful thinking or something. The comics have never gone there when it comes to Blue Jay, so it seems that many fans simply went there FOR them. "Head canon", I think that's called.
You'd think if they needed a character to adopt, they'd pick someone slightly less lame than Blue Jay...

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Sam_Vimes on Thu May 24, 2012 2:07 am

I know, right? There's probably no one lamer. Then again, part of the appeal is probably in how infrequently he's actually used. Makes plenty of room for fan fiction and personal interpretation.

Anyway, about The Shadow: I've just read issue 2 and it was a lot more Ennis-y than the first one. That should appease Garth's fanboys who bought the comic for him and not for The Shadow. Oh, and I liked how Lamont Cranston AND Kent Allard are both mentioned as alter egos, instead of one or the other. Very clever, unless I'm just missing some older story where someone else did that.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Mbast1 on Thu May 24, 2012 3:20 am

Sam_Vimes wrote: Oh, and I liked how Lamont Cranston AND Kent Allard are both mentioned as alter egos, instead of one or the other. Very clever, unless I'm just missing some older story where someone else did that.

I've read references to a pulp where you find out Allard is a fake identity, too, but I've never been able to find more.
As to Blue Jay, I think you're right that he's mostly a blank slate and that's why people project.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by BluesShark on Sun May 27, 2012 12:10 pm

It was ...OK. Neither as interesting artistically as Helfer and Baker's Shadow or as true to the character as Jones and Baretto's Shadow Strikes, but better than it might have been given that Ennis openly stated he was taking Chaykin's excrable Blood and Judgement as his starting block.

I'll stick around for the ride, but actually thought the updating of The Spider from Dynamite was a better read.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Sun May 27, 2012 12:49 pm

BluesShark wrote:It was ...OK. Neither as interesting artistically as Helfer and Baker's Shadow or as true to the character as Jones and Baretto's Shadow Strikes, but better than it might have been given that Ennis openly stated he was taking Chaykin's excrable Blood and Judgement as his starting block.

I'll stick around for the ride, but actually thought the updating of The Spider from Dynamite was a better read.
The Spider is pretty good, I agree. I'm liking a lot of Dynamite's stuff lately, though I lament the apparent passing of their Project Superpowers titles.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by BluesShark on Sun May 27, 2012 1:22 pm

For whatever reason, I rather think the Spider's amoral 'Nobody gave me right to do this but I'm going to do it anyway' is rather more of our times than the Shadow's 'I know best' breed of morality.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Sun May 27, 2012 1:35 pm

BluesShark wrote:For whatever reason, I rather think the Spider's amoral 'Nobody gave me right to do this but I'm going to do it anyway' is rather more of our times than the Shadow's 'I know best' breed of morality.
Oh, there are still plenty of people out there who act as they do because they "know best", I assure you. I see a lot of them in local government... Wink

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Re: The Shadow

Post by MajorHoy on Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:45 am

I've been enjoying the Matt Wagner-written Shadow Year One series.



The regular Shadow series was hit-or-miss depending on the writer and the artist.

Also enjoyed the Shadow/Green Hornet: Dark Nights limited series.


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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:09 am

I've liked both of those, too, though I still can't get into the Hornet's solo series. For some reason, he just doesn't engage my interest.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Sam_Vimes on Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:57 pm

The Shadow Now was pretty rad, while it lasted. I don't like this new Chaykin one, though.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by MajorHoy on Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:12 am

Sam_Vimes wrote:The Shadow Now was pretty rad, while it lasted. I don't like this new Chaykin one, though.
I use to like Chaykin, but after a while it seemed he was limited in the type of characters he could write. When he re-did Blackhawk for DC back in the late 1980's, it just felt like he had totally reworked his "Janos Prohaska" into a WWII version of Reuben Flagg. Chaykin's take on The Shadow for DC also wasn't the way I preferred the character.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:36 am

MajorHoy wrote:
Sam_Vimes wrote:The Shadow Now was pretty rad, while it lasted. I don't like this new Chaykin one, though.
I use to like Chaykin, but after a while it seemed he was limited in the type of characters he could write. When he re-did Blackhawk for DC back in the late 1980's, it just felt like he had totally reworked his "Janos Prohaska" into a WWII version of Reuben Flagg. Chaykin's take on The Shadow for DC also wasn't the way I preferred the character.
I liked Chaykin's Blackhawk series, but then, I never cared much for the previous versions. The original 'Bart Hawk' had about as much personality as a deck chair, I thought. At least Prohaska was interesting.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Lucy McGough on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:32 am

MajorHoy wrote:I use to like Chaykin, but after a while it seemed he was limited in the type of characters he could write. When he re-did Blackhawk for DC back in the late 1980's, it just felt like he had totally reworked his "Janos Prohaska" into a WWII version of Reuben Flagg.
Oh, all authors do that after a while. Thomas Hardy puts the same comedy yokels in all his novels and just gives them different names. I don't mind though, 'cos they're much-needed comic relief.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by MajorHoy on Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:20 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:I use to like Chaykin, but after a while it seemed he was limited in the type of characters he could write. When he re-did Blackhawk for DC back in the late 1980's, it just felt like he had totally reworked his "Janos Prohaska" into a WWII version of Reuben Flagg.
Oh, all authors do that after a while. Thomas Hardy puts the same comedy yokels in all his novels and just gives them different names. I don't mind though, 'cos they're much-needed comic relief.
But those are the background characters . . . we're talking the main stars of the book with Chaykin.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Lucy McGough on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:16 pm

Authors do that with main characters too.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:53 am

Why is the name "Bendis" coming to mind...

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Re: The Shadow

Post by MajorHoy on Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:48 am

tony ingram wrote:Why is the name "Bendis" coming to mind...
We can't blame Britain for him, can we?

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:26 am

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Why is the name "Bendis" coming to mind...
We can't blame Britain for him, can we?
No, he's all on you...

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Lucy McGough on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:14 am

We, on the other hand, are responsible for Mark Millar.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:00 am

Lucy McGough wrote:We, on the other hand, are responsible for Mark Millar.
Our national shame...

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Lucy McGough on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:23 am

Yeah... that and the slave trade Very Happy

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Re: The Shadow

Post by MajorHoy on Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:07 am

Lucy McGough wrote:Yeah... that and the slave trade Very Happy
I think others may have perpetuated the system before the English, but I can't swear to it.

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Re: The Shadow

Post by tony ingram on Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:54 am

MajorHoy wrote:
Lucy McGough wrote:Yeah... that and the slave trade Very Happy
I think others may have perpetuated the system before the English, but I can't swear to it.
Well, when in Rome...

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Re: The Shadow

Post by Lucy McGough on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:52 am

What have the Romans ever done for us?

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Re: The Shadow

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