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Watchmen Prequels to be Made After All

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Post by tony ingram Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:33 pm

DC Comics have announced plans to produce four new limited series' based on Alan Moore's Watchmen characters, prequels to the original series, despite Moore wanting nothing more to do with the company after they-in his view-effectively screwed him out of the rights to the series more than 20 years ago. The announcement has apparently angered many industry professionals, and if rumours are to be believed the decision may have been a factor in Paul Levitz stepping down as DC's publisher. It appears artistic integrity still counts for some people, but not for the men in suits at Time Warner...
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Post by Mbast1 Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:04 am

tony ingram wrote:DC Comics have announced plans to produce four new limited series' based on Alan Moore's Watchmen characters, prequels to the original series,

This has killed DC comic for me. I have been in numerous arguments on those boards over the years, and this is the last thing that has pushed me away from corporate comics. From now it, it's either creator-owned only, or at least from companies where they are known to treat creators as if they matter.
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Post by tony ingram Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:26 am

I've been exploring more independant stuff since dropping most of DC's output in September, since losing those books left me with a bit more money to spare, and now that the Earth 2 fiasco has pretty much made up my mind to part company with them altogether I expect I'll continue to delve deeper into indies and small press. I've just preordered Bryan Talbot's Grandville Bete Noir, which I'm rather looking forward to...

Getting back to the original topic, yeah, I'm totally against this move as well. DC have treated Moore disgracefully over Watchmen and these prequels are just rubbing salt into the wounds. I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.
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Post by freedumbdclxvi Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:38 pm

i've no interest in picking up the minis, but i'll be continuing to read the books i've been enjoying. however, i'll probably be checking out a few more independent titles simply because i've dropped a few more dc books and i won't be adding any til may. it gives me a good three month window for trying out a few new books.

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Post by tony ingram Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:40 pm

Do you read anything from Dynamite? I've picked up a few of their titles lately out of curiosity and really enjoyed them.
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Post by freedumbdclxvi Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:14 pm

i've picked up a couple things from them, the main being a couple grant morrison items (the 18 days script book and a trade of his vampirella stories with mark millar). the only monthly title i tried lately that i'm consciously aware was published by dynamite was kirby genesis. i tried the first three issues, but it just wasn't doing it for me. i was getting the boys, too, but i went to trade only on it a while back.

what titles are you picking up?

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Post by Mbast1 Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:09 am

tony ingram wrote:I've been exploring more independant stuff since dropping most of DC's output in September, since losing those books left me with a bit more money to spare, and now that the Earth 2 fiasco

Did I miss something about Earth 2? Until Watchmen, I was really looking forward to that.

And I've been looking at more independents. I've always loved superheroes, but I've also always loved other genres, and so I'm just concentrating more on that. There's so much out there. I am, though, just getting to Mark Waid's Irredeemable, and liked the first trade.
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Post by tony ingram Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:14 am

From the variant covers that DC have just released online, it seems Earth 2 is not any Earth 2 we knew, or anything like it. The Earth 2 cover shows a young Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in futuristic looking costumes fighting Parademons, and the Worlds' Finest cover strongly suggests that the redesigned Huntress and Power Girl are actually now the Earth 2 Robin and Supergirl. That isn't the JSA we were led to believe we were getting.
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Post by Mbast1 Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:17 pm

tony ingram wrote:From the variant covers that DC have just released online, it seems Earth 2 is not any Earth 2 we knew, or anything like it.

I looked them up after I wrote that, and yes, it does look entirely new. Could be fun, but I just don't care. It really does seem as though they're either ignoring their old customers and think they'll come along. I like new stuff, I just don't think it makes sense to focus entirely customers you don't already have to the detriment of those you do. Seems like a bad business move.
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Post by tony ingram Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:25 pm

It's baffling. And I just don't believe a lot of these new customers will stick around, anyway. It'll be like the 90's all over again.
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Post by Mbast1 Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:18 pm

tony ingram wrote:It's baffling. And I just don't believe a lot of these new customers will stick around, anyway. It'll be like the 90's all over again.

They won't, IMO. DC is promising them "new" and different, but delivering the same things with minor changes. And, I think it'll be worse than the 90s, in that there are fewer readers now. I wonder how long DC will be around.
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Post by tony ingram Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:24 pm

It would be sad if they went under, but I think comics on the whole would survive perfectly well without DC. Might even give some of the independant companies a boost.
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Post by freedumbdclxvi Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:05 am

as a follow up on your dynamite suggestion, i've been impressed by what i've seen from dark horse, both in their monthlies and their reprints. they published two of the international collections i picked up lately.

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Post by Mbast1 Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:42 am

tony ingram wrote:It would be sad if they went under, but I think comics on the whole would survive perfectly well without DC. Might even give some of the independant companies a boost.

I don't want DC to go under, but given their treatment of creators, I don't know how upset I'd be. It would be a problem, though, in that so many creators are employed by them that without them it would be a while before others could step up. We'd lose a lot of good people though.
I just don't know.
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Post by tony ingram Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:06 am

I think, personally, that DC's most valuable output over the last twenty years has been from Vertigo, and they seem to determined to dismantle Vertigo altogether. Another very odd move.
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Post by Mbast1 Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:51 am

tony ingram wrote:I think, personally, that DC's most valuable output over the last twenty years has been from Vertigo, and they seem to determined to dismantle Vertigo altogether. Another very odd move.

I can only hope they have people giving them better information that I can guess. They seem to be making strange choices, and it's almost random. More likely, they're responding to fan reactions, but that might be a bad idea, too.
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Post by tony ingram Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:49 am

Yeah, maybe-but then, why wreck Earth 2, which is being almost universally condemned as a bad move? Admittedly, there has been a certain amound of fan demand for the Vertigo characters to be reintegrated into the DCU, but are Shade, Swamp Thing and John Constantine really that essential to their spandex playground?
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:32 am

Watchmen prequels are a terrible, terrible idea, on a par with George Lucas whoring out Darth Vader and Yoda to sell cars and mobile phones. It's like what Marx said about (I think) the power of money: "All that is solid melts into air, all which is holy is profaned."
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Post by tony ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:44 am

I agree with you about Watchmen, but I actually found the two ads you're referring to very funny, particularly Yoda at the Sushi bar.

"Do you think he tastes of Wasabi?" Razz
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:45 am

But what about artistic integrity? Might as well get Doctor Manhattan to advertise gentlemen's underwear Evil or Very Mad
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Post by tony ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:37 am

Lucy McGough wrote:But what about artistic integrity? Might as well get Doctor Manhattan to advertise gentlemen's underwear Evil or Very Mad
I think that would be difficult. He seems extremely resistant to the idea of wearing any. It would, however, make for a very memorable ad campaign, a fifty foot man in Y-fronts looming above Northampton ...
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:40 am

tony ingram wrote:I think that would be difficult. He seems extremely resistant to the idea of wearing any.
Depends when he is. And just you wait - they'll be using Alan Moore's creations to sell us all stuff we want but don't need before you can say Michael Jon Carter.
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Post by tony ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:47 am

Alas, poor Booster Gold. Nobody ever remembers the good things... Crying or Very sad

Booster had pretty much outgrown that moneygrabbing phase by the 90's, then DC essentially reset his character to an earlier point for no readily apparent reason. More fuel for the revolution!

Getting back to the prequels, most of the creative types who've ventured an opinion aren't exactly brimming over with enthusiasm for the idea. Only Peter David seems to be in the 'pro' camp, and I wonder sometimes if he doesn't have some personal grudge against Moore.


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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:47 am

We do.
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Post by tony ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:51 am

Lucy McGough wrote:We do.
Remember the good things? Of course. Booster was always one of DC's most underrated characters.
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:52 am

I wish he still had his own title...

Anyway, sorry for taking us off topic Embarassed
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Post by tony ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:53 am

Lucy McGough wrote:I wish he still had his own title...

Anyway, sorry for taking us off topic Embarassed
I wish all the DC characters i remember had their own titles. Unfortunately, they all seem to have been replaced by doppelgangers with none of their charm...
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:57 am

That's what the Watchmen prequels will be like. The characters will look the same and have the same names, but that will be all. They'll have turned them into zombies to make money.
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Post by tony ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:59 am

Obviously. I just hope the projec t is as much of a failure as it deserves to be. Sadly, a lot of he current generation of fans have no critical faculties at all and will buy anything the internet tells them is "hot".
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Post by Mbast1 Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:43 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:And just you wait - they'll be using Alan Moore's creations to sell us all stuff we want but don't need

Of course. It's the nature of monocultural advertising. Everything has to be subsumed into selling you crap. I've already seen Watchmen stuff at my LCS (A keychain), and there's talk of more. No thanks.
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:46 pm

It's a shame. It's the perversion of good stories. Stories should be for pleasure, not for profit Sad
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Post by tony ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:46 pm

I must admit, I do have two Watchmen action figures (the Comedian and Hollis Mason), but in my defence, they were going cheap!
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:47 pm

Action figures are probably just about forgiveable Razz
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Post by Mbast1 Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:48 pm

tony ingram wrote:Obviously. I just hope the projec t is as much of a failure as it deserves to be. Sadly, a lot of he current generation of fans have no critical faculties at all and will buy anything the internet tells them is "hot".

The ones who make me nuts are the ones who hate Moore, and who want to buy it from spite. I can even "sort of" understand the ones who don't care, although the "give me what I want, period" crowd annoy me.
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Post by Mbast1 Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:49 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:It's a shame. It's the perversion of good stories. Stories should be for pleasure, not for profit Sad

Not according to the dominant capitalist paradigm. Everything IS a business, and everything should be. Nothing can just be for it's own sake.
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Post by tony ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:54 pm

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Obviously. I just hope the projec t is as much of a failure as it deserves to be. Sadly, a lot of he current generation of fans have no critical faculties at all and will buy anything the internet tells them is "hot".

The ones who make me nuts are the ones who hate Moore, and who want to buy it from spite. I can even "sort of" understand the ones who don't care, although the "give me what I want, period" crowd annoy me.
I don't understand the Moore haters. It seems to be a case of "this bloke won't work for DC doing crap aimed at the lowest common denominator, therefore he is a total bastard and thinks he's too good for us". They don't seem able to understand the concept of "not interested in mainstream superhero comics", or to be able to comprehend that there may be more to comics than that...
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:10 pm

Mbast1 wrote:The ones who make me nuts are the ones who hate Moore, and who want to buy it from spite.
What the merry heck?
Mbast1 wrote:Not according to the dominant capitalist paradigm. Everything IS a business, and everything should be. Nothing can just be for it's own sake.
Stop the world, I wanna get off! Crying or Very sad
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Post by Mbast1 Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:13 pm

tony ingram wrote:or to be able to comprehend that there may be more to comics than that...

I think it's far worse. They only WANT comics to be about mainstream superheroes. Look at how angry some of them get when other things are mentioned. They want the audience to be small, and the material to be the same. It's bizarre.
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Post by Mbast1 Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:15 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:What the merry heck?

Yeah, I don't get it either. They seem to want him to suffer because he doesn't want to keep writing things they like. It's odd.
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:17 pm

Humans can be horrible like that. The desire for others to suffer is everywhere.
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Post by tony ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:26 pm

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:or to be able to comprehend that there may be more to comics than that...

I think it's far worse. They only WANT comics to be about mainstream superheroes. Look at how angry some of them get when other things are mentioned. They want the audience to be small, and the material to be the same. It's bizarre.
Exactly. They consider Moore a snob because he doesn't want to write superheroes. They consider themselves to be comics fans, but all they really are is superhero fans, and all they want is adolescent power fantasies, preferably published by one company to which they've pledged their alleigance as though it was a football team. It's pathetic.
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Post by Mbast1 Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:21 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:Humans can be horrible like that. The desire for others to suffer is everywhere.

I know, far too well. But, what I just don't get is the reason they hate him. And its intensity, I guess.
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Post by Mbast1 Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:22 pm

tony ingram wrote:they've pledged their alleigance as though it was a football team. It's pathetic.

Exactly so. One of my friends has said he thinks feudalism is the natural state of most people, they just want to pledge their loyalty to someone who will provide for their needs, and be done with it.
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:45 pm

Mbast1 wrote:I know, far too well. But, what I just don't get is the reason they hate him. And its intensity, I guess.
Jealousy? Or maybe they just think he's a weirdo.

Mbast1 wrote:Exactly so. One of my friends has said he thinks feudalism is the natural state of most people, they just want to pledge their loyalty to someone who will provide for their needs, and be done with it.
I don't mind pledging my loyalty to a person who's shown themselves to be worthy of it, but I wouldn't do it to an organisation.
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Post by freedumbdclxvi Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:37 am

Mbast1 wrote:The ones who make me nuts are the ones who hate Moore, and who want to buy it from spite.

you've seen people actually wanting to buy it out of spite? that has to be one of the saddest reasons i've ever heard to buy something.

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Post by Mbast1 Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:03 am

freedumbdclxvi wrote:you've seen people actually wanting to buy it out of spite? that has to be one of the saddest reasons i've ever heard to buy something.

It could be just my interpretation. I've seen them say basically they hate Moore, but they like the characters, so they're going to buy them, and then make derisive remarks about his not wanting Watchmen derivatives done. Maybe that's not "out of spite", but that's how I took it.
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Post by tony ingram Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:57 am

Lucy McGough wrote:
Mbast1 wrote:I know, far too well. But, what I just don't get is the reason they hate him. And its intensity, I guess.
Jealousy? Or maybe they just think he's a weirdo.

Mbast1 wrote:Exactly so. One of my friends has said he thinks feudalism is the natural state of most people, they just want to pledge their loyalty to someone who will provide for their needs, and be done with it.
I don't mind pledging my loyalty to a person who's shown themselves to be worthy of it, but I wouldn't do it to an organisation.
This is why I don't understand people who so readily self-identify as "DC fans" or "Marvel fans" and seem to believe that being one excludes the possibility of also being the other. I'm a fan of characters, creators and stories, not of publishing companies. After all, since when do companies appreciate loyalty?
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:59 am

Perhaps I might get into Marvel if I ever read anything by them. But I haven't got the time! I haven't even finished watching 'Black Orchid' yet!
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Watchmen Prequels to be Made After All Empty Re: Watchmen Prequels to be Made After All

Post by tony ingram Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:00 am

freedumbdclxvi wrote:
Mbast1 wrote:The ones who make me nuts are the ones who hate Moore, and who want to buy it from spite.

you've seen people actually wanting to buy it out of spite? that has to be one of the saddest reasons i've ever heard to buy something.
I've seen it, too. People saying they'll buy the books in the hope that there'll then be more of them, just to annoy Moore because he's a "bitter, cranky old man". Aside from the fact that Moore is neither bitter nor old, it's kind of like kids trying to annoy the old guy on the street who dislikes them coming onto his lawn, just to be malicious for the fun of it.
tony ingram
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Watchmen Prequels to be Made After All Empty Re: Watchmen Prequels to be Made After All

Post by tony ingram Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:02 am

Lucy McGough wrote:Perhaps I might get into Marvel if I ever read anything by them. But I haven't got the time!
We'll have to remedy that. There's some Marvel stuff I suspect you'd like...
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Watchmen Prequels to be Made After All Empty Re: Watchmen Prequels to be Made After All

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