Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

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Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:14 am

Paul Jenkins has written an "open letter" explaining why he has decided to stay away from DC and Marvel and concentrate on his work for BOOM! Studios...and heavily criticising DC's current attitude to creators, which he describes as "bullying". Read here:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/05/the-bullying-of-creators-paul-jenkins-talks-about-leaving-dc-and-marvel-for-boom/

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Mbast1 on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:52 pm

tony ingram wrote:which he describes as "bullying".

Every time I think maybe I'm being a bit harsh on DC I see stories like this. I just don't get why they think this is a viable model any more.

It seems that publishers in general are getting worse. Warren Ellis has dropped his association with Mulholland Books. Not sure why, but it doesn't bode well for an open and better market for creators.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Sam_Vimes on Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:36 am

I wonder if the editors who are causing these problems even care when these kinds of things hit the internet. They certainly don't seem to be changing, though, so probably not. You'd think their BOSSES would, but I suppose creators for the Big 2 are actually pretty disposable, what with the fans willing to buy/put up with anything the way they are.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:56 am

Are fans really that willing, though? I think there'll be a backlash sooner or later, even if only because the constant turnover of creators will end up making for a product even the most rabid fanboy won't bother to buy.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Sam_Vimes on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:06 pm

I sure hope so, Tony. I also hoped that The New 52 would be instantly rejected by the long-time readers, though, and that didn't happen, so maybe I should hope the opposite...?

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:07 pm

I think a certain disillusionment has started to set in with a lot of people as it's become clearer that DC have no real idea what they're doing, there's no grand plan.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Sam_Vimes on Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:00 pm

Are you sure? I thought the grand plan was to make DC like Image when it was really, really bad.

Seriously, though, yeah, I'm starting to see some of that from the more honest of The New 52's initial supporters. There will always be yes-men fanboys liking everything DC does (for some reason), but maybe you're right, maybe that won't be enough to keep this silly experiment alive much longer.


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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:08 pm

If they lose many more creators, it will become academic.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Mbast1 on Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:02 pm

tony ingram wrote:Are fans really that willing, though? I think there'll be a backlash sooner or later, even if only because the constant turnover of creators will end up making for a product even the most rabid fanboy won't bother to buy.

I don't know that I think this is true. I had discussions on the DC boards with people who applaud this kind of thing, because creators should know they're not important, only the characters. I don't know how representative that is, but given what fans actually do, appallingly so.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:09 pm

I remember some of those discussions. A totally bizarre atitude, as though the characters could exist without the writers or a story can be any good if the writer isn't committed to it and good at their job. Strange, strange people.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Mbast1 on Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:29 pm

tony ingram wrote:Strange, strange people.

No, selfish, childish people. "I want" is all the seem to care about.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:53 am

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Strange, strange people.

No, selfish, childish people. "I want" is all the seem to care about.
And the anonymity of the internet gives them the means to express that attitude publicly without shame, of course.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by BluesShark on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:20 am

It was the endemic attitude on the DC Boards when the Watchmen prequels were announced. Most didn't even seem to be aware there was such a thing as 'other publishers' outside Marvel and DC, nevermind that most of them were based around creators rights. It was like looking through a very dark looking glass into an alternative universe.

I'm down to two DC books, which puts them on the same level sales wise as Red 5 in my monthly spend.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:00 pm

BluesShark wrote:It was the endemic attitude on the DC Boards when the Watchmen prequels were announced. Most didn't even seem to be aware there was such a thing as 'other publishers' outside Marvel and DC, nevermind that most of them were based around creators rights. It was like looking through a very dark looking glass into an alternative universe.
Some of those same people are still around and posting on the DCU Guide boards. They haven't gotten any better. One was asking only yesterday "Why do people care about whether creators are happy or not, aren't the comics the important thing?"

I'm down to two DC books, which puts them on the same level sales wise as Red 5 in my monthly spend.
I must admit, the only Red 5 book I've ever bought is Atomic Robo. But I do love Atomic Robo...

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by BluesShark on Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:33 pm

I'm a big fan of Neozoic Tales as well, though I'm not sure about the art on the newly launched second volume.


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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:19 pm

Worth buying volume one?

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Mbast1 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:09 pm

tony ingram wrote:without shame, of course.

I think many of them are NOT ashamed of it. They really seem to think they have the right to have their wants fed at others expense.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Mbast1 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:12 pm

BluesShark wrote:Most didn't even seem to be aware there was such a thing as 'other publishers' outside Marvel and DC, nevermind that most of them were based around creators rights. It was like looking through a very dark looking glass into an alternative universe.

Ignorance of the long-term issues and struggles for creator's rights is one thing, but it was the whole "creators shouldn't have rights, they should just service the company and give me what I want" attitude many of them expressed that got to me. It became quite a nasty discussion, and I still don't feel bad that I was as bad back because it was an ugly display of the basest human self-righteousness.
Before Watchmen is what killed DC for me.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Mbast1 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:14 pm

tony ingram wrote:One was asking only yesterday "Why do people care about whether creators are happy or not, aren't the comics the important thing?"

This is what gets to me, really. It's like when people find out I don't shop at certain stores because of how they treat their workers or push costs off onto the local economy, or that I don't buy certain things because of how they operate. Some of them actually get angry, because (and I've heard this one directly) it affects THEIR choices. As though you have a sacred right to whatever you want at someone else's cost. It's just an ugly side of people.
How can you NOT care about the people who create the things you use and love? It's a bit sociopathic.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:36 am

I may be falling into the old trap of stereotyping, but I think within most fandoms, most groups of people who become heavily invested in escapist fantasy, there is often a subset who are indeed sociopathic to a degree. The escapist fantasy becomes all important, any real world associations it has don't matter. There was a woman on one of the Doctor Who forums a few years back, absolutely obsessed with David Tennant: except that she wasn't obsessed with David Tennant, she was obsessed by his portrayal of the Doctor and seemed genuinely unable to separate the two. When he announced he was leaving the role she went from slightly worrying crackpot to something really nasty, even saying she would rather David Tennant died in an accident than have to know he was alive out there and not being her Doctor anymore. That's an extreme example, but I don't think it's as uncommon as one might hope.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by BluesShark on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:52 pm

tony ingram wrote:Worth buying volume one?

I'd say so yes, if only for the artwork. I was really pleased to see it make a comeback after five years, because I thought it was as dead as a dodo.

Red 5 seem to have a pretty good quality control unit - always worth checking out what they are doing, I think.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Mbast1 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:08 pm

tony ingram wrote:The escapist fantasy becomes all important, any real world associations it has don't matter.

I agree. And I've had people argue that certain things shouldn't be done because it's "escapism" and shouldn't have to reflect this or that. Makes you wonder what kind of world to which they wish to escape. It's all so selfish, though, and I can forgive that to some extent, since this IS entertainment. I mean, in the end it's not as if your likes or dislikes should depend on others, but I think there's a line. When you think you deserve to have your wants met no matter what, you've crossed it.

And that is a bit disturbing. Tennant is "my" Doctor, I admit, but that woman needs help. Seriously.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:07 pm

I probably shouldn't mention the death threats and campaign of sustained harrassment after they killed off Ianto Jones in Torchwood...

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by BluesShark on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:41 pm

Death threats for Miracle Day I could understand and maybe even excuse, but Ianto's death?

I know now that my decision to mostly ignore fandom is justified.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:41 pm

>ahem<

http://www.saveianto.com/cardiff-shrine.html

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Mbast1 on Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:00 am

tony ingram wrote:I probably shouldn't mention the death threats and campaign of sustained harrassment after they killed off Ianto Jones in Torchwood...

Yeah, I gotta think if you're willing to threaten to kill someone that should be taken seriously. As in "lock you up" before you actually DO it.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by BluesShark on Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:41 am

Not sure about that.  Not sure what you'd arrest them for - whilst there is a law against threats to kill as a lawyer of my experience once said 'if you don't have a gun or a knife and proximity don't bring it to me'.

These people are all too busy thinking Amazons fan-fiction announcement is their way to make fame and fortune, as well as proving the BBC wrong as the millions of sales they'll be making will prove the BBC wrong about how Who/Torchwood/Basil Brush should be written to be taken seriously.


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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:44 am

How the Hell did you know about my forthcoming Basil Brush Trilogy? I haven't told anyone about that! You've bugged my office, haven't you!? I'll make you wish you'd never been born!!!!!!Mad

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by BluesShark on Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:00 am

Twisted Evil

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by MajorHoy on Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:03 pm

Sam_Vimes wrote:I wonder if the editors who are causing these problems even care when these kinds of things hit the internet. They certainly don't seem to be changing, though, so probably not. You'd think their BOSSES would, but I suppose creators for the Big 2 are actually pretty disposable, what with the fans willing to buy/put up with anything the way they are.
Maybe they don't want to return to the days of Todd McFarlane and Rob Liefeld as gods?

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by tony ingram on Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:11 pm

A valid concern.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Mbast1 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:39 pm

MajorHoy wrote:Maybe they don't want to return to the days of Todd McFarlane and Rob Liefeld as gods?

I'd rather the creators be viewed that way than as disposable. Either extreme is bad, but if I had to choose, I'd go that way.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

Post by Lucy McGough on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:05 pm

So would I.

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Re: Paul Jenkins on Why He Will No Longer Work for DC

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