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What I Think Really Happened to the JSA at Flashpoint

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Post by tony ingram Fri May 04, 2012 5:34 pm

We've been lamenting the apparent rebooting of the classic JSA as these new characters of the same names in E arth 2 and Worlds' Finest, but is that really what's happened? I may be able to offer a ray of hope. here's what I think became of the JSA, and my explanation for these de-aged Earth 2 versions...

Several years ago during Infinite Crisis, the long lost Diana Prince of Earth Two resurfaced, passed on a rather cryptic message, then flew off in her invisible plane, saying that she was being drawn...somewhere. Months later, Power Girl discovered a newly created alternate world called Earth 2 (as opposed to Earth Two) and among its inhabitants, the "Justice Society Infinity", was a Wonder Woman. I think many assumed this was the original Diana Prince, but then, that world had a duplicate Power Girl who was not the original; suppose "Wonder Woman " wasn't, either? So, where did Diana Prince really go?

My theory is that she was drawn into the Dreaming, where her daughter Lyta and son-in-law Hector had been taken by Daniel, the Sandman; hopefully, husband Steve Trevor was similarly saved. And there the family stayed, happy and untroubled...

Until the day when Diana's magical senses detected something seriously wrong back on the Earth where her old friends in the JSA (friends who no longer remembered her, but friends still) were still living. A great change was coming, a devastating shift in reality which would wipe away the JSA and all that they had ever been. Wonder Woman could not allow this, but when she went to her grandson Daniel, he said he was forbidden to interfere. So in desperation, she reached out with her mind...

Back on Earth, their temporary new members having departed, the original JSA members and their friends and family had gathered to witness the end of a procedure which would restore one of their own. Mr. Terrific had isolated the energy signature of the discorporated Alan Scott, and was attemting to bring Green Lantern back with the assistance of Dr. Fate and the telepathic Brainwave Jnr. The others-Jay and Joan Garrick, Wildcat, Hawkman, Power Girl, the two Hourmen and Wendi Tyler, Liberty Belle, Jesse Quick, Stargirl, Cyclone, Ma Hunkel, Jakeem Thunder and the Thunderbolt, Jade, Obsidian, Atom Smasher, Dr. Mid-Nite, Sand Hawkins, Molly Mayne and more, even Northwind (who had been with Brainwave when Terrific sought him out) waited anxiously. Shiera Hall was there too, unknown to them all, her elemental form hovering close to her husband. Finally, the news came; it had started! Terrific, Fate and Brainwave had located something! Incredibly, Alan Scott was reforming!

And then-he came! The Spectre, wild, screaming about the end of all things, even as a bemused Alan Scott emerged from the lab to cries of welcome from his friends. The end was approaching, the Flashpoint. Nothing could stop it, not even the ghostly guardian-but he could, and would, save his extended family. Ignoring their protests, the Spectre gathered them up and took them away, out of reality itself, even as reality changed around them. He took them to the refuge prepared for them, the Dreaming, where Diana Prince and her family were waiting, hoping that her desperate mental call to the Spectre had gotten through. As the old world was swept away back on Earth, the JSA rejoiced to see friends they had forgotten-Diana and Steve-and friends they'd thought long dead-Hector and Lyta, and a reconstituted Shiera Hall, and even Kent and Inza Nelson, released at last from the ectoplasmic shell of a creature which had believed itself to be Kent's non existent nephew, Kent V Nelson. Even those long dead were there, the Atom, Sandman, Starman and his sons, Charles McNider, Terry Sloane, Robin and the Huntress, Beth Chapel, Sylv Pemberton, Yolanda Montez, and the greatest of them all, Kal-L and Bruce Wayne (taken out of time in those last moments by Daniel, swayed by Diana's compassion). They had defeated the odds once more with the help of their friends. And one day, the JSA would return to the 'real' world, to set it all to rights...
Of course, they got off a heckuva lot better than those poor Justice Society Infinty gimps on Earth-2 did when Flashpoint hit....
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Post by tony ingram Fri May 04, 2012 6:36 pm

Meanwhile, at the headquarters of the new Injustice Society, even as his allies Per Degaton and the Ultra-Humanite bickered in front of their bored hirelings (the Icicle, Tigress and Solomon Grundy included), William Asmodeus Zard became aware of a disturbance in the ether. His finely honed abilities picking up on Wonder Woman's message, he reacted instinctively: grabbing his associates inside a cone of power, he latched onto the Spectre's magical trail.And now the Injustice Society, cloaked by the Wizard's power, lurk like serpents in the Eden of the Dreaming...
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Post by Mbast1 Fri May 04, 2012 10:54 pm

tony ingram wrote:Ignoring their protests, the Spectre gathered them up and took them away, out of reality itself, even as reality changed around them. He took them to the refuge prepared for them, the Dreaming, where Diana Prince and her family were waiting, hoping that her desperate mental call to the Spectre had gotten through.

So much better if DC had done this.
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Post by tony ingram Sat May 05, 2012 8:20 am

If anyone at DC sees this in a year or two, after the next editorial shake-up; feel free to use it free of charge...
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat May 05, 2012 11:17 am

This is what actually happened. It must be.
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Post by tony ingram Sat May 05, 2012 1:19 pm

Oh, yeah-and the Freedom Fighters got out the same way!
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Post by Mbast1 Sat May 05, 2012 5:29 pm

tony ingram wrote:Oh, yeah-and the Freedom Fighters got out the same way!

Exactly!
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat May 05, 2012 5:31 pm

What better refuge for forgotten fictional characters than the Dreaming?
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Post by tony ingram Sat May 05, 2012 5:37 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:What better refuge for forgotten fictional characters than the Dreaming?
The JSA will never be forgotten. DC have tried to make us forget them more than once and it never works.
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Post by tony ingram Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:33 pm

Well, judging by the Johnny Thunder scene in DC: Rebirth, I may have got the details wrong but it looks like the JSA were indeed magically saved...
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Post by Mbast1 Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:56 pm

tony ingram wrote:Well, judging by the Johnny Thunder scene in DC: Rebirth, I may have got the details wrong but it looks like the JSA were indeed magically saved...

Since I'm not reading it, what happened?
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Post by tony ingram Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:04 am

It's only a brief two page scene in Rebirth, but it's obviously intended to be picked up on later. When Wally West is trying to make himself known, one of the characters he visits is Johnny Thunder, now old and powerless.

What I Think Really Happened to the JSA at Flashpoint Rebirth3_zpscgntsj5p

The implication seems to be that in the revised timeline, Johnny saved the JSA by taking them out of the world in 1950 but is now unable to bring them back. He's dragged off by a couple of orderlies who clearly think he's mad and say something about needing to tell his grandchildren he's causing trouble again.
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Post by Mbast1 Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:46 pm

tony ingram wrote:The implication seems to be that in the revised timeline, Johnny saved the JSA by taking them out of the world in 1950 but is now unable to bring them back. He's dragged off by a couple of orderlies who clearly think he's mad and say something about needing to tell his grandchildren he's causing trouble again.

Yeah, I can definitely see what you're saying. One can but hope!
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Post by tony ingram Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:30 pm

I'm really hoping they don't screw this up. Or take two years to resolve it.
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Post by Lucy Ingram Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:13 pm

Poor Johnny Sad
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Post by Mbast1 Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:08 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:Poor Johnny Sad

IIRC, there was an issue of The Spectre during Ostrander's run where it was implied that Johnny remembered the Pre-Crisis multiverse. He seems to be used for this plot device a lot.
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Post by tony ingram Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:21 pm

Mbast1 wrote:
Lucy McGough wrote:Poor Johnny Sad

IIRC, there was an issue of The Spectre during Ostrander's run where it was implied that Johnny remembered the Pre-Crisis multiverse. He seems to be used for this plot device a lot.
The one where we got the flashback scene with both the Silver and Golden Age Hawkmen in it? That was the same issue, I think, in which Ostrander gave him dementia, something later writers also followed up on more than once.
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Post by Mbast1 Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:44 pm

tony ingram wrote:The one where we got the flashback scene with both the Silver and Golden Age Hawkmen in it? That was the same issue, I think, in which Ostrander gave him dementia, something later writers also followed up on more than once.

I'm not sure, really. I just remember an issue where he was seen remembering things he shouldn't have (at that time).
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Post by MajorHoy Sun May 27, 2018 1:57 am

{posted on Tue Jul 12, 2016}
tony ingram wrote:I'm really hoping they don't screw this up. Or take two years to resolve it.

---------------------------------------
Nearly two years later, and . . . still waiting.
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Post by tony ingram Sun May 27, 2018 9:42 am

Well, it has moved on slightly. At least we've seen Jay Garrick, albeit briefly, and Johnny's situation hasn't been forgotten.
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sun May 27, 2018 2:16 pm

They'll spin it out for as long as possible to keep the mystery/suspense going.
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Post by MajorHoy Sun May 27, 2018 4:07 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:They'll spin it out for as long as possible to keep the mystery/suspense going.
Or maybe until Johns and Frank slowly finishing grinding out Doomsday Cluck?
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Post by tony ingram Sun May 27, 2018 4:30 pm

Am I really the only one enjoying Doomsday Clock?
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Post by MajorHoy Sun May 27, 2018 6:53 pm

tony ingram wrote:Am I really the only one enjoying Doomsday Clock?
Well, I can't completely say I'm not enjoying it, but that's only because I'm not buying it at present.

I'll wait to find out if / how the JSA actually returns in it or not, and for how long, and how they are treated in the story.

Definitely don't need another
What I Think Really Happened to the JSA at Flashpoint 424?cb=20100917054019
type of moment from old Geoffy again.
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Post by tony ingram Sun May 27, 2018 8:32 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Am I really the only one enjoying Doomsday Clock?
Well, I can't completely say I'm not enjoying it, but that's only because I'm not buying it at present.

I'll wait to find out if / how the JSA actually returns in it or not, and for how long, and how they are treated in the story.

Definitely don't need another
What I Think Really Happened to the JSA at Flashpoint 424?cb=20100917054019
type of moment from old Geoffy again.
I don't think that's the direction it's heading in. So far, it's more of a Watchmen sequel than anything else.
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Post by MajorHoy Sun May 27, 2018 9:31 pm

tony ingram wrote:So far, it's more of a Watchmen sequel than anything else.
Ah, Watchmen . . . Alan Moore's loving tribute to the Care Bears.

What I Think Really Happened to the JSA at Flashpoint 51qT-%2BkDjrL._SY445_
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Post by tony ingram Sun May 27, 2018 10:03 pm

Oi! Don't diss Uncle Alan.
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Post by MajorHoy Mon May 28, 2018 12:56 am

tony ingram wrote:Oi! Don't diss Uncle Alan.
Oi vey, I didn't realize you were fluent in Yiddish!
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Post by tony ingram Mon May 28, 2018 9:10 am

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Oi! Don't diss Uncle Alan.
Oi vey, I didn't realize you were fluent in Yiddish!
"Oi" is a traditional British exclamation which loosely translates as "oh, I say!"
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Post by MajorHoy Mon May 28, 2018 4:07 pm

tony ingram wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Oi! Don't diss Uncle Alan.
Oi vey, I didn't realize you were fluent in Yiddish!
"Oi" is a traditional British exclamation which loosely translates as "oh, I say!"
I had checked that out before my posting, but still couldn't resist the joke.
Oi! is a subgenre of punk rock that originated in the United Kingdom in the late 1970s. The music and its associated subculture had the goal of bringing together punks, skinheads and other working-class youth.
The Oi! movement was partly a response to the perception that many participants in the early punk rock scene were, in the words of The Business guitarist Steve Kent, "trendy university people using long words, trying to be artistic...and losing touch". André Schlesinger, singer of The Press, said, "Oi shares many similarities with folk music, besides its often simple musical structure; quaint in some respects and crude in others, not to mention brutally honest, it usually tells a story based in truth." For instance, "Such Fun", from Oi! Oi! That's Yer Lot!, by The Blood is an extension of the 1977 Sex Pistols song "God Save the Queen" which attacks the abuse of power by those who hold themselves in a royal or religious majesty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oi!

oi
exclamation
British
informal

Used to attract someone's attention, especially in a rough or angry way.
‘oi, don't lean out’
‘oi, taxi!’

Origin
Variant of hoy: first recorded in the 1930s.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/oi
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Post by Lucy Ingram Mon May 28, 2018 6:07 pm

tony ingram wrote:Am I really the only one enjoying Doomsday Clock?
Yes!
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Post by Mbast1 Tue May 29, 2018 10:32 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Am I really the only one enjoying Doomsday Clock?
Yes!

I'm certainly not. Not reading it. And after hearing it described as DC's mainstream superhero response to Watchmen, no thanks. I mean, Watchmen was done in 1986. How much am I supposed to care at this point?
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Post by MajorHoy Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:56 pm

Do you think maybe the answer to the question of "What Happened to the JSA at Flashpoint?" is that after (barely) surviving Marc Guggenheim's stint as their writer, they just tried to retire so that DC couldn't come up with even stupider writing?

What I Think Really Happened to the JSA at Flashpoint 323?cb=20110403014801
(The cover image that sums it all up . . . )
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Post by tony ingram Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:03 pm

Please. Never mention that run again. I still have nightmares.


Last edited by tony ingram on Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:52 am

Would you rather we had no JSA comics than ones that are badly written?
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Post by tony ingram Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:55 am

Lucy McGough wrote:Would you rather we had no JSA comics than ones that are badly written?
That's a difficult question. I suppose as long as there was a title featuring them, there'd be room for improvement, whereas nothing at all is just hopeless...
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Post by MajorHoy Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:28 pm

tony ingram wrote:
Lucy McGough wrote:Would you rather we had no JSA comics than ones that are badly written?
That's a difficult question. I suppose as long as there was a title featuring them, there'd be room for improvement, whereas nothing at all is just hopeless...
And the current situation with the JSA is . . . ?
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Post by tony ingram Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:59 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
Lucy McGough wrote:Would you rather we had no JSA comics than ones that are badly written?
That's a difficult question. I suppose as long as there was a title featuring them, there'd be room for improvement, whereas nothing at all is just hopeless...
And the current situation with the JSA is . . . ?
Hopeful...?
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Post by MajorHoy Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:35 am

tony ingram wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
Lucy McGough wrote:Would you rather we had no JSA comics than ones that are badly written?
That's a difficult question. I suppose as long as there was a title featuring them, there'd be room for improvement, whereas nothing at all is just hopeless...
And the current situation with the JSA is . . . ?
Hopeful...?
My "Hope"-tank is just about on "E" and I'm still riding around, wondering how far away an open petrol station is . . .
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Post by Lucy Ingram Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:17 am

Nice metaphor.
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