DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

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DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:34 am

Geoff Johns has been talking about DC's forthcoming "Rebirth" event this summer, which promises to be "a line wide relaunch" with "a renewed focus on legacy and the shared universe". Action Comics and Detective Comics will be returning to their original numbering, too. But is this going to see the return of those versions of the characters they abandoned in 2011, or is it just another attempt to persuade lapsed readers to come back, teasing much but providing little as arguably happened with Convergence?

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Lucy McGough on Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:51 am

Um... we won't know until it happens?

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Mbast1 on Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:45 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:Um... we won't know until it happens?

Very true, but I think Tony might be right. DC has long done this (I'm thinking of Zero Hour hinting at a return a multiverse) kind of thing with longtime fans and then not delivering.
If they're going to change, just go for it. They keep half-doing things, and then trying to retract when the fanbase gets angry. You're either aiming at the longtime fans or you're not, you can't do both and deliver. IMO.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:23 pm

I agree. In the past, their attempts to please everyone with this kind of stuff have always ended up satisfying no one. I suspect this will be another of those situations.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Mbast1 on Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:09 pm

tony ingram wrote:I agree. In the past, their attempts to please everyone with this kind of stuff have always ended up satisfying no one. I suspect this will be another of those situations.

I half wish they would split the line. Publish books for longtime fans, give them what they want if they can keep those books afloat. And then just ignore all of that for new readers, really do new things. New writers, different versions of characters, etc. See who they can bring in by doing something truly different. And stop worrying about making it all one "universe". Not in the sense of having things contradict within singular "lines" of books (I know that bothers some fans), but do a "Old guys" line, and then a "Newbie" line, and not make any effort to make them mesh.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Lucy McGough on Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:11 pm

They should bring back J. H. Williams III on Batwoman and let her get married.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:08 am

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:I agree. In the past, their attempts to please everyone with this kind of stuff have always ended up satisfying no one. I suspect this will be another of those situations.

I half wish they would split the line. Publish books for longtime fans, give them what they want if they can keep those books afloat. And then just ignore all of that for new readers, really do new things. New writers, different versions of characters, etc. See who they can bring in by doing something truly different. And stop worrying about making it all one "universe". Not in the sense of having things contradict within singular "lines" of books (I know that bothers some fans), but do a "Old guys" line, and then a "Newbie" line, and not make any effort to make them mesh.
I can certainly see the sense in that. Half a dozen or so books specifically aimed at longtime readers would satisfy me. Classic Superman in Action Comics, classic Batman in Detective Comics, JSA in All-Star Comics, JLA in Justice League of America, and other characters divided between World's Finest and Adventure Comics. Simple.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Mbast1 on Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:36 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:They should bring back J. H. Williams III on Batwoman and let her get married.

I guess I just don't understand DC's supposed rule about no marriages. I mean, if you want to keep the perception that all comics are aimed at children going, this is a great way to do it. I'm not married, never have been, but most people DO get married. I think it's a bit goofy, at best.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Mbast1 on Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:38 pm

tony ingram wrote: and other characters divided between World's Finest and Adventure Comics. Simple.

I think I've read that anthology books don't sell well, but I think those might be better for some things. Either anthologies of new material to see what sells, or longtime reader books as anthologies.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:33 pm

See, as a Brit, I'm just naturally predisposed to the anthology frmat, because pretty much all British comics are anthologies, and always have been.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Lucy McGough on Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:53 am

Mbast1 wrote:I guess I just don't understand DC's supposed rule about no marriages. I mean, if you want to keep the perception that all comics are aimed at children going, this is a great way to do it. I'm not married, never have been, but most people DO get married. I think it's a bit goofy, at best.

I don't think that most people get married, but if a storyline is clearly heading in that direction then it's forced and artificial to say, "No, they can't get married because we have an anti-matrimony policy."

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Sam_Vimes on Wed May 25, 2016 3:48 pm

Definitely not a tease, you guys. Read this comic. I just did and I'm over the moon.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Wed May 25, 2016 3:53 pm

I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but a friend of mine basically gave me the entire plot over the phone this morning! Ecstatic to hear the nightmare seems to be over, but I'm really not sure how I feel about the big revelation that
Spoiler:
Watchmen are now in DCU continuity...

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Sam_Vimes on Fri May 27, 2016 2:36 am

Yeah, that is weird, but it's a small price to pay, I feel. And you can always just say they're alternate earth versions if they're especially mishandled. Like how in my mind there're two John Constantines right now.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Lucy McGough on Sat May 28, 2016 12:03 am

It kind of makes sense, but I'm not sure how Alan Moore will handle it.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Sun May 29, 2016 6:47 am

Sam_Vimes wrote:Yeah, that is weird, but it's a small price to pay, I feel. And you can always just say they're alternate earth versions if they're especially mishandled. Like how in my mind there're two John Constantines right now.
Please don't remind me of the New 52 Constantine...how could any writer have so little understanding of a long established character?

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Sun May 29, 2016 11:39 am

Just read it. I am experiencing a strange, warm feeling. Is this the Earth thing known as happiness?







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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Sun May 29, 2016 11:47 am

Hmmm...


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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun May 29, 2016 6:21 pm

tony ingram wrote:Just read it. I am experiencing a strange, warm feeling. Is this the Earth thing known as happiness?

Yes. Yes, it is. Embrace the love. Let the healing begin.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun May 29, 2016 6:23 pm

(Also, how is there a lens flare in the Batcave?)

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:17 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:(Also, how is there a lens flare in the Batcave?)
Alfred is off-panel, indulging his passion for photographing master Bruce while he's brooding. He keeps a scrapbook.


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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Mbast1 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:41 pm

tony ingram wrote:
Spoiler:
Watchmen are now in DCU continuity...

And that is why DC won't get any money from me. I was already not buying because of the earlier series of exploitations, but this was getting my interest. Now, no.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:52 pm

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
Spoiler:
Watchmen are now in DCU continuity...

And that is why DC won't get any money from me. I was already not buying because of the earlier series of exploitations, but this was getting my interest. Now, no.
You aren't the only person I've seen that reaction from. I think they may have misjudged their audience. Again.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Lucy McGough on Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:50 pm

tony ingram wrote:Alfred is off-panel, indulging his passion for photographing master Bruce while he's brooding. He keeps a scrapbook.
Laughing

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Spektre on Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:25 am

If this is a complete or near return of the DCU, I'm with you in the nightmare over/happy category.

I doubt though.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:28 am

Well, I'm guessing "near return". The original Titans are back in continuity somehow, the new Superman is dead, replaced by his pre-Flashpoint counterpart (complete with Lois), the JSA seem set to return, which is my main requirement...on the whole, I'm quite optimistic!

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Mbast1 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:49 pm

tony ingram wrote:the new Superman is dead, replaced by his pre-Flashpoint counterpart (complete with Lois)!

I don't know, I just found this very weird. Killing one Superman just to replace him with an older version. I don't get it.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:34 am

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:the new Superman is dead, replaced by his pre-Flashpoint counterpart (complete with Lois)!

I don't know, I just found this very weird. Killing one Superman just to replace him with an older version. I don't get it.
I gather it's what they originally intended to do back in 1985; kill off the Earth One Superman in COIE #12 and replace him with his Golden Age predecessor. I always thought that sounded like a great idea, personally.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:37 pm

The younger Superman was annoying.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Mbast1 on Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:08 pm

tony ingram wrote:I gather it's what they originally intended to do back in 1985; kill off the Earth One Superman in COIE #12 and replace him with his Golden Age predecessor

I read that was an idea Chris Claremont floated. I don't know that I'd have liked it, but replacing with the original (more or less) seems slightly less odd that just "the one right before this one".

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:30 pm

I thought it was Roy Thomas...

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Mbast1 on Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:09 pm

tony ingram wrote:I thought it was Roy Thomas...

According to this, it was Claremont:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16627

But, my point was just that it wasn't something the company actually was working towards, doesn't much matter who thought of it.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:16 pm

Pity. It was a better idea than what they ended up with.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by Mbast1 on Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:58 pm

tony ingram wrote:Pity. It was a better idea than what they ended up with.

They ended up with a mess. I am someone who loved the old multiverse, and think it was a great stroy-telling framework. That said, if they were going to start over, they should have started over. DC has a pattern of making enough changes to anger fans, but not enough to really appeal to different people. This was the beginning. I liked Byrne's Superman (right up until he killed the Pocket Universe Kryptonians), but I would have been happier with the Bronze Age Superman continuing. But, again, if you're going to reboot, go all the way. Otherwise you're not really appealing to anyone.

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Re: DC Rebirth: just another tease, or not?

Post by tony ingram on Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:28 pm

I was fairly happy with the post-Crisis DCU, even though Earth Two and its inhabitants were always the characters I cared most about, because the attitude post-Crisis was initially "everything still happened unless we specifically state that it didn't". I had no interest in the New 52 because there, the attitude was the opposite: "nothing now happened unless we specifically state that it did". Luckily for me, the two major characters most significantly affected by the post-Crisis reboots were Superman and Wonder Woman, the characters I had the least interest in in their previous incarnations. Byrne was about the first writer to make Superman interesting to me. Of course, by about the early 90s they'd totally lost track of what was or wasn't in continuity and it was indeed, as you say, a mess...

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