Question about British English

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Question about British English

Post by Mbast1 on Tue May 16, 2017 10:00 pm

Can anyone answer this?

"When a UK person speaks of Mary I (aka Queen Mary, Mary Tudor, Bloody Mary, etc.), does one pronounce it "Mary the First", "Mary One", "Queen Mary", or would one just say "Mary", or something I haven't thought of?
Thanks…"

It came up on a research list I use.
Thanks,
Mike
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Lucy McGough on Sat May 20, 2017 8:54 am

Probably "Queen Mary," because we haven't had another queen regnant called Mary.

(A queen regnant is one who is queen in their own right, like both Elizabeths. A queen consort is one who is the wife of the king. You don't call someone 'Joe I' if they've been the only person to hold the title called Joe. That's why the current pope is Pope Francis, not Pope Francis I. He'd become Pope Francis I if a future pope decided to call himself Francis.)
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Mbast1 on Tue May 23, 2017 3:49 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:Probably "Queen Mary," because we haven't had another queen regnant called Mary.

That was actually really interesting. Thanks!
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Lucy McGough on Wed May 24, 2017 8:29 am

No worries! Smile
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Mbast1 on Wed May 24, 2017 5:20 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:No worries! Smile

I really know very little about your system of governance, at least in terms of the royalty. As an American I don't much like the idea of heredity being the thing that gets you power, but it is still an interesting system. I do appreciate both the answer and the depth.
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Lucy McGough on Wed May 24, 2017 9:00 pm

Thanks. If it helps, we don't understand the way you guys do things either.
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Mbast1 on Fri May 26, 2017 4:12 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:Thanks. If it helps, we don't understand the way you guys do things either.

Honestly, I'm not sure we do either. It's a web of systems, and it get very convoluted.
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Lucy McGough on Sat May 27, 2017 7:53 am

Same here, I guess. But doesn't heredity get you power in the USA as well? Donald Trump inherited a ton of money. And the Bushes and the Kennedys are political dynasties.
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Mbast1 on Sun May 28, 2017 8:13 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:Same here, I guess. But doesn't heredity get you power in the USA as well? Donald Trump inherited a ton of money. And the Bushes and the Kennedys are political dynasties.

Ok, now that you lay it out like that, yes it does. Sometimes we don't live up to our ideals as much as we'd like. Just as with people who think your system has "class" issues and ours doesn't, it's simply not true.
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Lucy McGough on Tue May 30, 2017 8:06 pm

I admire some of your ideals. I'm sure you're even sadder than we are that you don't live up to all of them all of the time. After all, you have to live there.
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Re: Question about British English

Post by tony ingram on Wed May 31, 2017 8:49 am

Lucy McGough wrote:Probably "Queen Mary," because we haven't had another queen regnant called Mary.

(A queen regnant is one who is queen in their own right, like both Elizabeths. A queen consort is one who is the wife of the king. You don't call someone 'Joe I' if they've been the only person to hold the title called Joe. That's why the current pope is Pope Francis, not Pope Francis I. He'd become Pope Francis I if a future pope decided to call himself Francis.)
I still don't get the whole thing about Popes picking different names for themselves. If your name is Frank and you become Pope, why wouldn't you just be called Pope Frank? Same with nuns. Why suddenly decide to be Sister Consumptive when your birth certificate says your name is Beryl? What's wrong with Sister Beryl?
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Lucy McGough on Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:57 am

With nuns, it's because they're starting a new life and they want to pick their own name, e.g. that of a saint whom they particularly admire or an aspect of Jesus/Mary to which they are particularly devoted.

With popes, it's the above AND they want their name to express some ideal for their papacy, or to follow in the footsteps of a previous pope they admired. Jorge Bergoglio named himself after St Francis, a saint who was famously on the side of poor people and fond of animals. In his papacy he's repeatedly said that poor people should get a better deal and we should look after the environment. If he was Pope George he'd have had a papacy based around... what? Killing dragons?

Why do you keep a name you didn't choose for yourself? Are you particularly fond of the name or of the people who gave it to you? Would you let somebody else choose what clothes you wear, what food you eat, what tattoos you get, what hairstyle you have?

P.S. A nun wouldn't call herself Sister Consumptive, because 'Consumptive' isn't a saint's name or the name of anything holy. (It's an old-fashioned adjective used to describe someone with tuberculosis, which used to be called consumption.) Said nun might call herself Sister Assumpta to remind herself about the assumption of the Virgin Mary into heaven (she zoomed straight up there without dying), to inspire herself to think of pure and heavenly things. She probably wouldn't stick with her birth name, Beryl, because it's not the name of a saint.
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Re: Question about British English

Post by tony ingram on Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:34 pm

Poor Saint Beryl the Inconspicuous. Always overlooked... Crying or Very sad
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Mbast1 on Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:07 am

Lucy McGough wrote:I admire some of your ideals. I'm sure you're even sadder than we are that you don't live up to all of them all of the time. After all, you have to live there.

Agreed, living here makes it harder when we don't live up to them. Honestly, I'd be happier if I thought people were even trying.
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Mbast1 on Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:10 am

tony ingram wrote:Poor Saint Beryl the Inconspicuous. Always overlooked... Crying or Very sad

Sometimes I just sit quietly on this side of the screen and enjoy the conversations you two have...
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Re: Question about British English

Post by tony ingram on Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:04 am

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Poor Saint Beryl the Inconspicuous. Always overlooked... Crying or Very sad

Sometimes I just sit quietly on this side of the screen and enjoy the conversations you two have...
Razz Razz Razz
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Re: Question about British English

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:14 am

Mbast1 wrote:Sometimes I just sit quietly on this side of the screen and enjoy the conversations you two have...

We aim to please Smile
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