Re: Justice Society of America: World's Greatest Heroes?

by **tony ingram** Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:39 pm

I think you got the better end of that deal. You got The Avengers too, though, didn't you?

by MajorHoy Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:56 pm

tony ingram wrote:
Silogramsam wrote:who are you really, major? Peter David? His mom?
His agent, I suspect.

I met him ages ago when I applied for a job with Marvel (back in the late 1980s), and I use to hang out with a comic book crowd ages ago. (The store I use to go to / help out with had connections, especially since it was so close to NYC, and a bunch of writers, artists and others lived in the area. Amanda Conner use to work at the store when she was breaking into the business, as did Kurt Busiek's wife (though they weren't yet married then).)

by Silogramsam Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:11 pm

I think you got the better end of that deal. You got The Avengers too, though, didn't you? wrote:

yes although I understood it better when I got older

did you get The Man from U.N.C.L.E.?

by **tony ingram** Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:13 pm

Silogramsam wrote:

yes although I understood it better when I got older

did you get The Man from U.N.C.L.E.?

Oh, yeah-I loved that show!

by **tony ingram** Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:22 am

Been looking at this book released last year, a celebration of the JSA's 75th, and the contents baffle me. As a representation of 75 years of the team's adventures, they seem seriously skewed in favour of the Silver Age (not the era the team originated in) and the modern era (post 1990) and they've also made the baffling decision to publish several parts of stories rather than complete ones. So, we have two complete Golden Age stories, followed by their first team-up with the JLA from JLA #21-22; so far, so good. But then, we have the second parts only of two more team-up tales from JLA #30 and #47 (why not just pick one story and print both parts?) followed by another complete two parter from #82-83, giving us about 150 pages of Silver Age material that's often focused more on the JLA than the JSA. The entire Bronze Age, a period in which the team actually had their own book again for a couple of years amongst many other appearances, is then basically represented by one 17 page flashback story from Adventure Comics, before we get an inexplicable shift to the eighties and two stories from All-Star Squadron. Didn't the 70s deserve more than that? Then, the book is rounded out by more incomplete material, in the conclusions of three separate ongoing stories from 1992, 1999 and 2001, a story from 2007 focusing on the Superman from Kingom Come, and then an apparently random issue of the godawful new Earth 2 title which, as far as I can see, has no real connection to the original JSA at all! Why? I get the distinct impression whoever picked this lineup of stories really had no particular feeling for the characters at all...they didn't even include their origin story, for Heaven's sake!

Justice Society of America: World's Greatest Heroes? - Page 4 Jsa75_zps5dtg3vci

Justice Society of America: World's Greatest Heroes? - Page 4 Jsa75_zps5dtg3vci

by Lucy Ingram Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:09 pm

Um... on the plus side, it's a good cover image...

by **tony ingram** Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:19 pm

Which features only three of the original Justice Society...

by Mbast1 Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:44 pm

tony ingram wrote:Which features only three of the original Justice Society...

Well, in their slight defense, I think it's 75 years for a reason. They want to sell it to those who like the old stuff, but also people who might want to see where the team is now. And in the future. I think it would be hard to do a good overview of ANY of these characters, given how many versions there are and how some fans react to the versions they don't like.
Sometimes I wonder if DC has a handle on who their audience actually is. They always seem so rudderless.

by **tony ingram** Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:36 pm

Having pretty much half the book be random chunks of incomplete stories just seems pointless, though. New or old fans, who wants to read just the last part of a story?

by Mbast1 Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:47 am

tony ingram wrote:Having pretty much half the book be random chunks of incomplete stories just seems pointless, though. New or old fans, who wants to read just the last part of a story?

I don't disagree. I just think given the history, there's little hope of appealing to anyone, although complete stories would seem a better idea.

by **tony ingram** Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:24 am

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Having pretty much half the book be random chunks of incomplete stories just seems pointless, though. New or old fans, who wants to read just the last part of a story?

I don't disagree. I just think given the history, there's little hope of appealing to anyone, although complete stories would seem a better idea.

Complete stories, and a more even mix of the different eras, I think.

by MajorHoy Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:47 am

tony ingram wrote:Having pretty much half the book be random chunks of incomplete stories just seems pointless, though. New or old fans, who wants to read just the last part of a story?

Plus, wasn't one of the stories included (from All-Star Squadron #67 in 1987) actually a retelling of another story told in the book (All Star Comics #4 from 1941)?
And they didn't even include the "origin" of the JSA (originally from 1977 but later retold/revised in 1988), did they?

by **tony ingram** Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:29 am

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Having pretty much half the book be random chunks of incomplete stories just seems pointless, though. New or old fans, who wants to read just the last part of a story?
Plus, wasn't one of the stories included (from All-Star Squadron #67 in 1987) actually a retelling of another story told in the book (All Star Comics #4 from 1941)?
And they didn't even include the "origin" of the JSA (originally from 1977 but later retold/revised in 1988), did they?

No, in fact they actually apologized in the foreword for leaving the origin story out! Said it was a question of space. Utterly bizarre.

by MajorHoy Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:08 pm

tony ingram wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Having pretty much half the book be random chunks of incomplete stories just seems pointless, though. New or old fans, who wants to read just the last part of a story?
Plus, wasn't one of the stories included (from All-Star Squadron #67 in 1987) actually a retelling of another story told in the book (All Star Comics #4 from 1941)?
And they didn't even include the "origin" of the JSA (originally from 1977 but later retold/revised in 1988), did they?
No, in fact they actually apologized in the foreword for leaving the origin story out! Said it was a question of space. Utterly bizarre.

Since the origin wasn't written until more than thirty-five years after the teams first appearance, that might be a slight excuse. But with the story from All-Star Comics #4 getting two different versions, you would have thought the All-Star Squaron issue would have easily been left out to include something else.
Ah, well . . .

by **tony ingram** Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:38 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Having pretty much half the book be random chunks of incomplete stories just seems pointless, though. New or old fans, who wants to read just the last part of a story?
Plus, wasn't one of the stories included (from All-Star Squadron #67 in 1987) actually a retelling of another story told in the book (All Star Comics #4 from 1941)?
And they didn't even include the "origin" of the JSA (originally from 1977 but later retold/revised in 1988), did they?
No, in fact they actually apologized in the foreword for leaving the origin story out! Said it was a question of space. Utterly bizarre.
Since the origin wasn't written until more than thirty-five years after the teams first appearance, that might be a slight excuse. But with the story from All-Star Comics #4 getting two different versions, you would have thought the All-Star Squaron issue would have easily been left out to include something else.
Ah, well . . .

I'd have left out that boody awful Earth 2 issue, myself.

by MajorHoy Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:52 pm

tony ingram wrote:I'd have left out that boody awful Earth 2 issue, myself.

Well, that goes without saying . . . but maybe when DC was assembling the collection, somebody in charge still wanted to believe Earth 2 would actually be the successful replacement for those "old guys".

by **tony ingram** Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:02 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:I'd have left out that boody awful Earth 2 issue, myself.
Well, that goes without saying . . . but maybe when DC was assembling the collection, somebody in charge still wanted to believe Earth 2 would actually be the successful replacement for those "old guys".

There's always one in any group who's totally out of touch with reality, isn't there?

by Lucy Ingram Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:53 am

tony ingram wrote:There's always one in any group who's totally out of touch with reality, isn't there?

On this forum, it's you Razz

by MajorHoy Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:51 am

Lucy Ingram wrote:
tony ingram wrote:There's always one in any group who's totally out of touch with reality, isn't there?
On this forum, it's you

But if we're talking about DC comics, it might be Dan <REDACTED>! Shocked

by MajorHoy Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:07 pm

Justice Society of America: World's Greatest Heroes? - Page 4 Justic12

originally from Justice League of America #76 (November-December 1969)

by **tony ingram** Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:27 pm

MajorHoy wrote:

originally from Justice League of America #76 (November-December 1969)

That is one of my favourite JSA images ever.

by MajorHoy Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:40 am

from the Golden Age Gallery in All-Star Squadron #41 (January 1985)

Justice Society of America: World's Greatest Heroes? - Page 4 Jsa_in10

Though I previously saw it in the Steranko History of Comics (but without color) many years before that.

by **tony ingram** Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:41 am

MajorHoy wrote:from the Golden Age Gallery in All-Star Squadron #41 (January 1985)

Though I previously saw it in the Steranko History of Comics (but without color) many years before that.

I have that Steranko book and ASS #41! Never made the connection before...

by **tony ingram** Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Well, we've finally seen the JSA again, albeit just a couple of panels in Doomsday Clock #8, where Lois Lane has been sent a mysterious flash drive with old news footage from 1941 on it featuring a team of heroes she's never heard of...I guess it's progress!

by MajorHoy Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:59 pm

tony ingram wrote:Well, we've finally seen the JSA again, albeit just a couple of panels in Doomsday Clock #8, where Lois Lane has been sent a mysterious flash drive with old news footage from 1941 on it featuring a team of heroes she's never heard of...I guess it's progress!

I know if there's a room filled with garbage and you remove one piece of it that's technically "progress", but it seems like it's no better than giving a starving person some bread crumbs unless something much bigger comes of it in the very next issue.
(How much has happened so far since Jay returned briefly in "The Button"-crossover? Since Alan's lantern was discovered previously in Doomsday Cluck?)

And I have since gained a major concern that with the way Johns paces things, any actual "return" will be rushed and just thrown out there, or could possibly instead be saved for a separate mini-series (the way the Three Jokers subplot from DC Universe: Rebirth is being saved for a separate Prestige Format (or whatever) mini-series).

I would like to be hopeful, but I'm afraid DC will just twist on stomp on those hopes (AGAIN).

by **tony ingram** Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:18 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Well, we've finally seen the JSA again, albeit just a couple of panels in Doomsday Clock #8, where Lois Lane has been sent a mysterious flash drive with old news footage from 1941 on it featuring a team of heroes she's never heard of...I guess it's progress!
I know if there's a room filled with garbage and you remove one piece of it that's technically "progress", but it seems like it's no better than giving a starving person some bread crumbs unless something much bigger comes of it in the very next issue.
(How much has happened so far since Jay returned briefly in "The Button"-crossover? Since Alan's lantern was discovered previously in Doomsday Cluck?)

And I have since gained a major concern that with the way Johns paces things, any actual "return" will be rushed and just thrown out there, or could possibly instead be saved for a separate mini-series (the way the Three Jokers subplot from DC Universe: Rebirth is being saved for a separate Prestige Format (or whatever) mini-series).

I would like to be hopeful, but I'm afraid DC will just twist on stomp on those hopes (AGAIN).

You might be right, but I prefer to be a glass half full rather than a glass half empty guy, when it comes to the JSA.

Mind you, it may yet prove to be irrelevant from my my POV. The way things are going over here, a "no deal" Brexit could mean no international trade agreements with anyone and consequently no more US imports into Britain. Every international deal we had was made via the EU...

by Mbast1 Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:27 pm

tony ingram wrote:Mind you, it may yet prove to be irrelevant from my my POV. The way things are going over here, a "no deal" Brexit could mean no international trade agreements with anyone and consequently no more US imports into Britain. Every international deal we had was made via the EU...

Can I just take a side moment and wish you, and all of Britain, the best in dealing with this? We are having our own issues here, but yours seem to be so much more precarious. I would wish anyone going through such massive change well, but people I actually care about, in a country I like? You get ALL the best wishes. Take care.

by **tony ingram** Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:04 pm

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Mind you, it may yet prove to be irrelevant from my my POV. The way things are going over here, a "no deal" Brexit could mean no international trade agreements with anyone and consequently no more US imports into Britain. Every international deal we had was made via the EU...

Can I just take a side moment and wish you, and all of Britain, the best in dealing with this? We are having our own issues here, but yours seem to be so much more precarious. I would wish anyone going through such massive change well, but people I actually care about, in a country I like? You get ALL the best wishes. Take care.

Thank you. It is a very problematic situation, not least because it has divided the country in a way I can't recall ever seeing before. I'm used to political differences provoking arguments, but this seems to be an ideological difference provoking absolute hatred even between people otherwise on the same page about virtually everything. It is dividing families! And however it turns out, there seems to be no possible "good" result, now.

by MajorHoy Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:49 pm

tony ingram wrote:
Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Mind you, it may yet prove to be irrelevant from my my POV. The way things are going over here, a "no deal" Brexit could mean no international trade agreements with anyone and consequently no more US imports into Britain. Every international deal we had was made via the EU...
Can I just take a side moment and wish you, and all of Britain, the best in dealing with this? We are having our own issues here, but yours seem to be so much more precarious. I would wish anyone going through such massive change well, but people I actually care about, in a country I like? You get ALL the best wishes. Take care.
Thank you. It is a very problematic situation, not least because it has divided the country in a way I can't recall ever seeing before. I'm used to political differences provoking arguments, but this seems to be an ideological difference provoking absolute hatred even between people otherwise on the same page about virtually everything. It is dividing families! And however it turns out, there seems to be no possible "good" result, now.

I wonder if Britain will just break down and have the people vote again on whether they're still in favor of "Brexit" (now that some idiots who voted for it may realize they didn't really understand what they were voting for in the first place).

by **tony ingram** Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:04 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Mind you, it may yet prove to be irrelevant from my my POV. The way things are going over here, a "no deal" Brexit could mean no international trade agreements with anyone and consequently no more US imports into Britain. Every international deal we had was made via the EU...
Can I just take a side moment and wish you, and all of Britain, the best in dealing with this? We are having our own issues here, but yours seem to be so much more precarious. I would wish anyone going through such massive change well, but people I actually care about, in a country I like? You get ALL the best wishes. Take care.
Thank you. It is a very problematic situation, not least because it has divided the country in a way I can't recall ever seeing before. I'm used to political differences provoking arguments, but this seems to be an ideological difference provoking absolute hatred even between people otherwise on the same page about virtually everything. It is dividing families! And however it turns out, there seems to be no possible "good" result, now.
I wonder if Britain will just break down and have the people vote again on whether they're still in favor of "Brexit" (now that some idiots who voted for it may realize they didn't really understand what they were voting for in the first place).

And if they do that? And if enough people have changed their minds to change the outcome, say two million or so? Do you imagine all of the other fifteen million who voted leave will happily accept the fact that their victory in the first referendum has been overturned, that their opinions don't count? Hardly democratic, is it? We'd have rioting in the streets. We'll probably have it either way.

by MajorHoy Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:04 am

tony ingram wrote:And if they do that? And if enough people have changed their minds to change the outcome, say two million or so? Do you imagine all of the other fifteen million who voted leave will happily accept the fact that their victory in the first referendum has been overturned, that their opinions don't count? Hardly democratic, is it? We'd have rioting in the streets. We'll probably have it either way.

I don't know if there's any good, workable solution no matter how you slice it. At least giving people a second chance at a vote may at least show a path forward.

by **tony ingram** Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:26 am

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:And if they do that? And if enough people have changed their minds to change the outcome, say two million or so? Do you imagine all of the other fifteen million who voted leave will happily accept the fact that their victory in the first referendum has been overturned, that their opinions don't count? Hardly democratic, is it? We'd have rioting in the streets. We'll probably have it either way.
I don't know if there's any good, workable solution no matter how you slice it. At least giving people a second chance at a vote may at least show a path forward.

I think it would just divide us further and leave millions totally disillusioned with the whole system. The minute Cameron made the disasterous decision to hold a referendum without having any plan beyond that, it was too late to save the situation.

by Mbast1 Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:31 pm

tony ingram wrote:but this seems to be an ideological difference provoking absolute hatred even between people otherwise on the same page about virtually everything. It is dividing families! And however it turns out, there seems to be no possible "good" result, now.

This sounds so much like what I see here in the US, and that isn't good. We definitely feel like everything is horrible, and I wish it weren't sounding like you see the same. I don't know what any of us can do, but I really want you all to be safe and well.

by **tony ingram** Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:46 pm

Thank you.

by MajorHoy Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:52 am

tony ingram wrote:Well, we've finally seen the JSA again, albeit just a couple of panels in Doomsday Clock #8, where Lois Lane has been sent a mysterious flash drive with old news footage from 1941 on it featuring a team of heroes she's never heard of...I guess it's progress!

Justice Society of America: World's Greatest Heroes? - Page 4 Jsa_vi11

by **tony ingram** Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:18 am

That panel really made my day...

by MajorHoy Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:34 pm

from Golden Age Secret Files & Origins #1 (2001):

Justice Society of America: World's Greatest Heroes? - Page 4 Justic66

Justice Society of America: World's Greatest Heroes? - Page 4 Entry_10

by **tony ingram** Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:57 am

Star Spangled Kid and Hawkgirl (who were never members in the Golden Age) but no Power Girl?

by MajorHoy Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:24 pm

tony ingram wrote:Star Spangled Kid and Hawkgirl (who were never members in the Golden Age) but no Power Girl?

Well, that was from 2001.
I'm assuming the "Wonder Woman" in that line-up was Hippolyta, and both Hawkgirl and Star-Spangled Kid were Golden Age heroes who had worked with the JSA (in the 1999 two issue All-Star Comics) before eventually becoming members many years later.

Power Girl wasn't a "Golden Age" hero, and off-hand I'm not sure what exactly her past JSA status was back when that particular issue was released. I don't know if she had been in the JSA series before then. (And was she still supposedly a descendant of Arion rather than a Kryptonian back in 2001?)

by **tony ingram** Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:43 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Star Spangled Kid and Hawkgirl (who were never members in the Golden Age) but no Power Girl?
Well, that was from 2001.
I'm assuming the "Wonder Woman" in that line-up was Hippolyta, and both Hawkgirl and Star-Spangled Kid were Golden Age heroes who had worked with the JSA (in the 1999 two issue All-Star Comics) before eventually becoming members many years later.

Power Girl wasn't a "Golden Age" hero, and off-hand I'm not sure what exactly her past JSA status was back when that particular issue was released. I don't know if she had been in the JSA series before then. (And was she still supposedly a descendant of Arion rather than a Kryptonian back in 2001?)

PG's past history with the JSA was still very much in continuity. It had been referenced in Infinity Inc in the late eighties and in the Robinson/Johns JSA series that began in '99.

by MajorHoy Mon May 31, 2021 2:40 am

By the way, I haven't bought/read the issue yet, but there was this towards the back of the Stargirl Spring Break Special:

Justice Society of America: World's Greatest Heroes? - Page 4 Jsa_im11

Justice Society of America: World's Greatest Heroes? - Page 4 Jsa_im12

Now we just have to wait and see what / when / if anything further comes of it in the foreseeable future.

by **tony ingram** Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:49 am

I've read it. It was great. I particularly loved the way they solved the Seven Soldiers' continuity issues concerning Green Arrow and Speedy's participation (only 35 years too late).

Spoiler:

by MajorHoy Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:15 pm

MajorHoy wrote:By the way, I haven't bought/read the issue yet, but there was this towards the back of the Stargirl Spring Break Special:

Now we just have to wait and see what / when / if anything further comes of it in the foreseeable future.

By the way, anything that was going to come of that won't be with art by Bryan Hitch. A couple of posts on Twitter a few days ago in regard to somebody asking about it:

BRYAN HITCH
@THEBRYANHITCH
Replying to
@Hawkworld_
Not with me, I’m afraid. Tried but it didn’t come together.
6:51 AM · Aug 6, 2021

https://mobile.twitter.com/THEBRYANHITCH/status/1423597607155290115
and

BRYAN HITCH
@THEBRYANHITCH
Replying to
@Hawkworld_
It wasn’t really a tease as the intention was to do it. Just couldn’t get it over the finish line on my end.
7:13 AM · Aug 6, 2021

https://mobile.twitter.com/THEBRYANHITCH/status/1423603028146499589

I thought I read that Hitch is going to be doing the art for a Venom series at Marvel.
No idea if/when anything further may be happening with a Justice Society project or who would take over the artwork for that now.

by **tony ingram** Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:09 pm

Has anyone else been reading Infinite Frontier? Lots of JSA stuff happening there!

by MajorHoy Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:58 am

Have to see if the December 2021 solicitations (due out this month) finally have anything more on if / when / where the JSA could appear as a team next.

Also whether anything is said about a Stargirl #1 that Geoff Johns was promoting at the end of May's Stargirl Spring Break Special . . .

by **tony ingram** Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:37 pm

I really would recommend Infinite Frontier. There's a lot of JSA related stuff, and Alan, Jade and Obsidian are the main characters, aside from Roy Harper.

by MajorHoy Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:22 pm

tony ingram wrote:I really would recommend Infinite Frontier. There's a lot of JSA related stuff, and Alan, Jade and Obsidian are the main characters, aside from Roy Harper.

And then there's Darkseid, who DC has a tendency to overuse and wear out . . .

by **tony ingram** Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:35 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:I really would recommend Infinite Frontier. There's a lot of JSA related stuff, and Alan, Jade and Obsidian are the main characters, aside from Roy Harper.
And then there's Darkseid, who DC has a tendency to overuse and wear out . . .

Well, that all depends on the story. Or maybe I'm just being stupid in trying to actually be positive about things. I mean, I enjoyed it, but clearly I'm in the minority here...

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