Hawkman (new 2018 series)

HAWKMAN #1
Spinning out of the events of DARK NIGHTS: METAL, Carter Hall returns to the DC Universe! An explorer of the ancient and unknown, Hawkman finds himself embroiled in a long-standing mission to discover the true purpose of his many reincarnations. Carter races around the globe trying to piece together an ancient prophecy, but will he be able to face down his past lives lurking around every corner?
Written by: Robert Venditti
Art and Cover by: Bryan Hitch
Variant cover by: Stjepan Sejic
Series: HAWKMAN 2018
U.S. Cover Price: $3.99
Page Count: 32
On Sale Date: Jun 13 2018

https://www.dccomics.com/comics/hawkman-2018/hawkman-1

variant cover:


I'm torn as to whether I'll try this or not.
(Since an actual return of the JSA doesn't seem likely in the near-future, I may give at least the first issue a chance.)

I'm actually really looking forward to this. Carter has long been a favourite character of mine, and while I'm a little annoyed that he seems no longer to be connected to the JSA, it'll be nice to have him back all the same. Also, Bryan Hitch!

If you buy it I guess I'll read it. (Same reason as people have for climbing Mount Everest — "because it's there.")

Lucy McGough wrote:If you buy it I guess I'll read it. (Same reason as people have for climbing Mount Everest — "because it's there.")

And yet you still won't touch Red Sonja.

tony ingram wrote:

Lucy McGough wrote:If you buy it I guess I'll read it. (Same reason as people have for climbing Mount Everest — "because it's there.")

And yet you still won't touch Red Sonja.

Even when Gail Simone was writing her?
How about in the Dynamite Swords of Sorrow series a few years back?

MajorHoy wrote:

tony ingram wrote:

Lucy McGough wrote:If you buy it I guess I'll read it. (Same reason as people have for climbing Mount Everest — "because it's there.")

And yet you still won't touch Red Sonja.

Even when Gail Simone was writing her?
How about in the Dynamite Swords of Sorrow series a few years back?

Oh, that was good!

tony ingram wrote:I'm actually really looking forward to this. Carter has long been a favourite character of mine, and while I'm a little annoyed that he seems no longer to be connected to the JSA, . . .

Yeah, this is a real head-scratcher since Hawkman was one of those characters who would have supposedly been at the HUAC hearings when the JSA (along with Johnny's Thunderbolt) supposedly disappeared forever.

MajorHoy wrote:

tony ingram wrote:I'm actually really looking forward to this. Carter has long been a favourite character of mine, and while I'm a little annoyed that he seems no longer to be connected to the JSA, . . .

Yeah, this is a real head-scratcher since Hawkman was one of those characters who would have supposedly been at the HUAC hearings when the JSA (along with Johnny's Thunderbolt) supposedly disappeared forever.

it may be that he was, but that he simply doesn't currently remember his time with the JSA. We've already seen that the memories of several other characters, even of the new timeline, have been tampered with (Wally West had been forgotten entirely when he was trapped in the Speed Force, but when he returned, the Titans and others remembered him, but not the events of their shared past as they originally happened, and Wally himself then found himself recalling the new timeline; his original memories have only begun to surface since he touched Iris).

tony ingram wrote:but that he simply doesn't currently remember his time with the JSA.

This is one of those weird tropes DC keeps coming back to, that people have "forgotten" or are just not remembering their pasts. They did it around the time of Infinite Crisis/One Year Later, from what I remember. Also, they tend to do the "nothing is what it was meant to be, so we'll have to change reality to fix it" a bit often.

Mbast1 wrote:

tony ingram wrote:but that he simply doesn't currently remember his time with the JSA.  

This is one of those weird tropes DC keeps coming back to, that people have "forgotten" or are just not remembering their pasts. They did it around the time of Infinite Crisis/One Year Later, from what I remember. Also, they tend to do the "nothing is what it was meant to be, so we'll have to change reality to fix it" a bit often.

As near as I can work out from the Titans/Wally West storyline, Dr. Manhattan changed history by altering an event somewhere that robbed everyone of ten years, which is why nobody (except, now, Wally) remembers the pre-Flashpoint timeline. But then, Kadabra further altered reality to make everyone forget Wally had ever existed even in the new timeline. Except that he wasn't as powerful as Manhattan so his change could be undone once Wally got out of the Speed Force. Meanwhile, Johnny Thunder apparently took steps to save the JSA by sending the somewhere, and has been the only person who remembered them ever since, again until Wally. And Mxyzptlk protected Superman and his family by splitting them off from their new timeline counterparts, but now Supes's orginal history and that of his now deceased replacement have been merged into one, so Superman also remembers stuff that had previously not occurred in the new timeline. Or something. There, perfectly simple!

tony ingram wrote:

MajorHoy wrote:Yeah, this is a real head-scratcher since Hawkman was one of those characters who would have supposedly been at the HUAC hearings when the JSA (along with Johnny's Thunderbolt) supposedly disappeared forever.

it may be that he was, but that he simply doesn't currently remember his time with the JSA. We've already seen that the memories of several other characters, even of the new timeline, have been tampered with (Wally West had been forgotten entirely when he was trapped in the Speed Force, but when he returned, the Titans and others remembered him, but not the events of their shared past as they originally happened, and Wally himself then found himself recalling the new timeline; his original memories have only begun to surface since he touched Iris).

But wouldn't Johnny have known some of the secret identities of his fellow JSA members (especially maybe in the case of Black Canary) and have been able to try and contact them that way? And did the Thunderbolt forget his relationship / duty to Johnny?
To me it seems more likely those JSA members were removed, somehow, from the main Earth's realty (and memories).

MajorHoy wrote:

tony ingram wrote:

MajorHoy wrote:Yeah, this is a real head-scratcher since Hawkman was one of those characters who would have supposedly been at the HUAC hearings when the JSA (along with Johnny's Thunderbolt) supposedly disappeared forever.

it may be that he was, but that he simply doesn't currently remember his time with the JSA. We've already seen that the memories of several other characters, even of the new timeline, have been tampered with (Wally West had been forgotten entirely when he was trapped in the Speed Force, but when he returned, the Titans and others remembered him, but not the events of their shared past as they originally happened, and Wally himself then found himself recalling the new timeline; his original memories have only begun to surface since he touched Iris).

But wouldn't Johnny have known some of the secret identities of his fellow JSA members (especially maybe in the case of Black Canary) and have been able to try and contact them that way? And did the Thunderbolt forget his relationship / duty to Johnny?
To me it seems more likely those JSA members were removed, somehow, from the main Earth's realty (and memories).

Yes, we're talking at cross purposes, I think. I believe Johnny actually removed most of the JSA from reality and hid them somewhere. Maye Carter was the exception? Or, indeed, just one exception, since Doctor Fate and the Spectre also seem to still be around.

tony ingram wrote:I believe Johnny actually removed most of the JSA from reality and hid them somewhere. Maye Carter was the exception? Or, indeed, just one exception, since Doctor Fate and the Spectre also seem to still be around.

It all depends on if Johnny only wound-up removing the members testifying at the HUAC hearing or if other members were also included. Neither Doctor Fate nor Spectre were still regularly involved with the JSA at that time, and Fate could have been secluded in his tower and not removed with other members. As for Spectre, will he still have been a JSA member at this point due to his new origin twist (which was admittedly awful) during the )New52?

MajorHoy wrote:

tony ingram wrote:I believe Johnny actually removed most of the JSA from reality and hid them somewhere. Maye Carter was the exception? Or, indeed, just one exception, since Doctor Fate and the Spectre also seem to still be around.

It all depends on if Johnny only wound-up removing the members testifying at the HUAC hearing or if other members were also included. Neither Doctor Fate nor Spectre were still regularly involved with the JSA at that time, and Fate could have been secluded in his tower and not removed with other members. As for Spectre, will he still have been a JSA member at this point due to his new origin twist (which was admittedly awful) during the )New52?

A lot of the New 52 stuff seems to have been ditched. Spectre and Fate both seemed pretty much their old selves in the recent Deadman series.

tony ingram wrote:A lot of the New 52 stuff seems to have been ditched. Spectre and Fate both seemed pretty much their old selves in the recent Deadman series.

If you're talking about the series written and drawn by Neal Adams, the question may also be how much of that is in the main continuity.

Hmm. I've never seen those other two titles. Out of continuity?

tony ingram wrote:Hmm. I've never seen those other two titles. Out of continuity?

I believe so.
Neil Adams isn't exactly a "regular" writer for DC.
(And Batman: Odyssey was a pre-New52 series, released starting in 2010. They even had sneak preview for it in books like Justice Society of America #39, which was when Willingham was the writer.
Maybe they didn't have those "Sneak Preview" sections in copies released outside of North America?)

MajorHoy wrote:

tony ingram wrote:Hmm. I've never seen those other two titles. Out of continuity?

I believe so.
Neil Adams isn't exactly a "regular" writer for DC.
(And Batman: Odyssey was a pre-New52 series, released starting in 2010. They even had sneak preview for it in books like Justice Society of America #39, which was when Willingham was the writer.
Maybe they didn't have those "Sneak Preview" sections in copies released outside of North America?)

They probably did. More likely I just took no notice of them.

Here's what the new series' logo will look like:


By the way, have you seen what DC says about issue #2 and issue #3?

Main covers by Hitch for issues #2 and #3:

Nice. I do like Bryan's art. Hey...are those Fietherans!!!?

MajorHoy wrote:Here's what the new series' logo will look like:

I don't like the little hawk head on the H. Looks too small and fussy. It distracts from the clean, sharp lines of the letters.

First issue is due out this coming Wednesday (June 13th).

If we do buy it, it might not be on that exact day, but as and when funds become available.

Lucy McGough wrote:If we do buy it, it might not be on that exact day, but as and when funds become available.

It's been over ten years since Carter had his own series. I'm sure he can wait a week for us...

tony ingram wrote:

Lucy McGough wrote:If we do buy it, it might not be on that exact day, but as and when funds become available.

It's been over ten years since Carter had his own series. I'm sure he can wait a week for us...

But that may also depend on how many copies the place where you acquire your comic books receives . . .

MajorHoy wrote:

tony ingram wrote:

Lucy McGough wrote:If we do buy it, it might not be on that exact day, but as and when funds become available.

It's been over ten years since Carter had his own series. I'm sure he can wait a week for us...

But that may also depend on how many copies the place where you acquire your comic books receives . . .

Nah. Got a pull list. It's all in hand.

have the people at COmic Book Resources been reading comics for all of 5 minutes, and think that's all there is?

https://www.cbr.com/hawkman-carter-hall-origin-reboot/2/

At no point in Hawkman #1 is Hawkgirl, or his relationship with Kendra Saunders referenced. And that’s a good thing. Though the two often go hand in hand, if DC wants to rebuild Hawkman’s image, they need to be separated for a bit. Everything about Carter Hall and Kendra Saunders’ relationship was problematic. A woman with the soul of Hawkman’s lover but without any of the memories was a tough pill for him to swallow, and a majority of their interactions involved him harassing her because, according to him, they were meant to be together.

It was a storyline that very much revolved around his needs and desires. Sure, Hawkman eventually learned to respect Kendra’s boundaries, but it also involved him wearing her down. This was still not enough for him, though, so Kendra was killed in Blackest Night and Shayera returned. When Hawkman needed to be taught a lesson in Brightest Day about living for himself and not his girlfriend, Shayera was killed off again. Hawkgirl had no agency in these stories because it was all about Hawkman. It’s a story that should not have been OK then, and it would certainly not be acceptable now.

That last bit, her being Kendra Saunders was really a very small part of their history. I like that I learn about new things from that site, but it's often just a mess.

Mbast1 wrote:have the people at COmic Book Resources been reading comics for all of 5 minutes, and think that's all there is?

https://www.cbr.com/hawkman-carter-hall-origin-reboot/2/

At no point in Hawkman #1 is Hawkgirl, or his relationship with Kendra Saunders referenced. And that’s a good thing. Though the two often go hand in hand, if DC wants to rebuild Hawkman’s image, they need to be separated for a bit. Everything about Carter Hall and Kendra Saunders’ relationship was problematic. A woman with the soul of Hawkman’s lover but without any of the memories was a tough pill for him to swallow, and a majority of their interactions involved him harassing her because, according to him, they were meant to be together.

It was a storyline that very much revolved around his needs and desires. Sure, Hawkman eventually learned to respect Kendra’s boundaries, but it also involved him wearing her down. This was still not enough for him, though, so Kendra was killed in Blackest Night and Shayera returned. When Hawkman needed to be taught a lesson in Brightest Day about living for himself and not his girlfriend, Shayera was killed off again. Hawkgirl had no agency in these stories because it was all about Hawkman. It’s a story that should not have been OK then, and it would certainly not be acceptable now.

That last bit, her being Kendra Saunders was really a very small part of their history. I like that I learn about new things from that site, but it's often just a mess.

They are also confusing Shiera Hall with Shayera Hol, and last time I looked, she was his wife, not his girlfriend.

I'm still on the fence about this; I never really cottoned to the fustercluck version that resulted from Zero Hour (though the stories by John Ostrander were interesting enough) and I'm afraid how much of that might stay in play now.



I guess I'll decide when I finally get to the shop in (probably) another week or two (and if they still have any copies left).

You don't have a pull list?

tony ingram wrote:You don't have a pull list?

I have a very limited pull list, and I haven't decided if I should put Hawkman on it.

The only DC titles currently on my list are Batgirl (which may get dropped depending on where things go in the next few months now that Hope Larson is no longer the writer) and Scooby-Doo Team-Up.
Had put Action Comics on the list, but dropped it since Bendis is taking over; also had Terrifics and Immortal Men down for their first issues, but I'm not staying with either of those long-term. Already stopped buying Terrifics after issue #3.
I'm unfortunately at the point where the character is no longer a big enough reason to automatically buy a series; I now also have to consider the writer and the concept for the series (as well as perhaps the art).

Well, the art is by Bryan Hitch, so it goes without saying that it's beautiful.

Apparently, the first issue is selling out fast in some areas. I suspect it'll go to a second printing.

Also, while I haven't seen/read this issue, from a thread on a different forum, it seems as if this new series will introduce the idea that

Spoiler:

Again, I haven't read this myself.

Here's a link to an article with SPOILERS:
http://insidepulse.com/2018/06/15/dc-comics-universe-hawkman-1-spoilers . . .

I think I shall click on this after I've read the issue...

tony ingram wrote:I think I shall click on this after I've read the issue...

Probably a good move.
Me, I still can't decide if I'll get a copy (if I can find one when I finally go to the shop).

OK, having finally read it, I'm impressed. The art is great, Carter himself is back to being who he was before he got all mopey and furious, and the thorny problem of the various previous iterations of the character is neatly solved by a simple addition to the reincarnation mythos:

Spoiler:

There's still no mention of the JSA, but Carter does say that parts of his past seem to be missing, so...

tony ingram wrote:OK, having finally read it, I'm impressed. The art is great, Carter himself is back to being who he was before he got all mopey and furious, and the thorny problem of the various previous iterations of the character is neatly solved by a simple addition to the reincarnation mythos:

Spoiler:

There's still no mention of the JSA, but Carter does say that parts of his past seem to be missing, so...

The parts in your "SPOILER" box are what's really bothering me (again, without having read the actual story).
After all, the

Spoiler:

seems like an unnecessary addition, and how can

Spoiler:

Just seems like unnecessary additions that will come back to bite the character in the long run!

MajorHoy wrote:

tony ingram wrote:OK, having finally read it, I'm impressed. The art is great, Carter himself is back to being who he was before he got all mopey and furious, and the thorny problem of the various previous iterations of the character is neatly solved by a simple addition to the reincarnation mythos:

Spoiler:

There's still no mention of the JSA, but Carter does say that parts of his past seem to be missing, so...

The parts in your "SPOILER" box are what's really bothering me (again, without having read the actual story).
After all, the

Spoiler:

seems like an unnecessary addition, and how can

Spoiler:

Just seems like unnecessary additions that will come back to bite the character in the long run!  

I guess they had to do something to address the fact that there has already been another Hawkman in the current continuity.

tony ingram wrote:

MajorHoy wrote: . . . Just seems like unnecessary additions that will come back to bite the character in the long run!  

I guess they had to do something to address the fact that there has already been another Hawkman in the current continuity.

No, they really didn't.
One was an ancient Egyptian prince who kept being reincarnated.
The other was an alien being from a different planet.
I worked before they had to make all the changes because some idiot(s) chose to have Truman's Hawkworld take place in the "present day" (back in the late 1980s, but after CoIE).

MajorHoy wrote:

tony ingram wrote:

MajorHoy wrote: . . . Just seems like unnecessary additions that will come back to bite the character in the long run!  

I guess they had to do something to address the fact that there has already been another Hawkman in the current continuity.

No, they really didn't.
One was an ancient Egyptian prince who kept being reincarnated.
The other was an alien being from a different planet.
I worked before they had to make all the changes because some idiot(s) chose to have Truman's Hawkworld take place in the "present day" (back in the late 1980s, but after CoIE).

That always irritated me, too. There was never even a proper in-story reason for the Hawkworld reboot; you couldn't even say this was the post-Crisis Katar Hol, because the post-Crisis Katar Hol was still the Silver Age version and he had an entire solo series between 1986 and 1987!

tony ingram wrote:

MajorHoy wrote:One was an ancient Egyptian prince who kept being reincarnated.
The other was an alien being from a different planet.
I worked before they had to make all the changes because some idiot(s) chose to have Truman's Hawkworld take place in the "present day" (back in the late 1980s, but after CoIE).

That always irritated me, too. There was never even a proper in-story reason for the Hawkworld reboot; you couldn't even say this was the post-Crisis Katar Hol, because the post-Crisis Katar Hol was still the Silver Age version and he had an entire solo series between 1986 and 1987!

They could have used Truman's Hawkworld as either a separate Elseworlds story or as a reimagining of Katar's origin (but set several years before). But they didn't.

What's wrong with being reincarnated as a baby who is born years or decades before your current incarnation's death? Why on earth should reincarnation be linear — be restricted by the forward movement of time as experienced by us mundane fleshy humans? If space/race/gender etc are no barrier, then time shouldn't be either. I think the writers have FINALLY realised what reincarnation actually SHOULD BE.

Lucy McGough wrote:What's wrong with being reincarnated as a baby who is born years or decades before your current incarnation's death? Why on earth should reincarnation be linear — be restricted by the forward movement of time as experienced by us mundane fleshy humans? If space/race/gender etc are no barrier, then time shouldn't be either. I think the writers have FINALLY realised what reincarnation actually SHOULD BE.

But then you get things like a son being reincarnated as his father, his grandmother, his dog, his dinner, AND his spouse, and that gets too convoluted!

I want to be reincarnated as my cat. Maybe I already have been/will be, we seem to share certain character traits...

tony ingram wrote:I want to be reincarnated as  my cat. Maybe I already have been/will be, we seem to share certain character traits...

If we're picking, I want to be reincarnated as The Doctor.

Mbast1 wrote:

tony ingram wrote:I want to be reincarnated as  my cat. Maybe I already have been/will be, we seem to share certain character traits...

If we're picking, I want to be reincarnated as The Doctor.

Which one? Because I would love to be Tom Baker, but only if there was no chance of ever becoming David Tennant.

tony ingram wrote:

Mbast1 wrote:

tony ingram wrote:I want to be reincarnated as  my cat. Maybe I already have been/will be, we seem to share certain character traits...

If we're picking, I want to be reincarnated as The Doctor.

Which one? Because I would love to be Tom Baker, but only if there was no chance of ever becoming David Tennant.

Tony, Tony, Tony . . . aren't all of them essentially the same being, just with multiple regenerations?  

I want to be reincarnated as a millionaire.

Lucy McGough wrote:I want to be reincarnated as a millionaire.

A million $'s/£'s doesn't really go that far these days . . . not like it use to.