Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

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Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by Hourglass on Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:02 pm

I think we must all have experienced this: walk into your comic shop to see whats on sale and then you see a particualr comic which makes you feel god almighty who in the right mind would make this never buy this, which makes you think is the comic industry hitting an all time low.

I think one such example has to be the US BIBLEMAN comic series (also it has a TV series). As a former christian and student of Theology I just find the whole concept embarrassing and just makes the religion look foolish, not to mention A LOT of the comics contents contradict bible teachings etc. It's practically a propaganda machine to fool children.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:37 pm

I'vew never heard of this one, and I have to say I'm glad of that! Not comicdom's first flirtation with religion, though-Marvel published The Life of Pope John Paul II as a comic in the eighties...

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by Hourglass on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:37 pm

Theres also an Islamic superhero comic I found in FP a while ago. Cant remember the title but I recall it made the news so you can probably find stuff about it online.

One thing which does annoy me a bit are these American-mangas, US own comics but in manga style. Few comics can pull it off well and the others just look so bad and amateurish it's kind of a shame.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:02 am

A few years ago there was something of a craze for Manga style books in the US but it seems to be dying down a bit now. I never understood the appeal. Why try to make a product that is uniquely yours (and the US style comics are instantly recognisable as such) look like someone else's?

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by felneymike on Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:30 pm

"Because manga sells better!", but it sells to people who love Japanese comics and cartoons, and will buy any old rubbish because it's Japanese. If you get Americans to make comics in the same style they will hate it just as much because it "doesn't have the unique insights into human nature"... or something. Even if it is superior to the Japanese products... which it wasn't, anyway.

I do think, though, that the format of Manga with hundreds of pages for a cheap price because it's printed on bog paper (i refer to the weekly comics of Japan, not the collected books which are sold all over the world) would be a good thing for British publisher to experiment with, but only if it's done British-style and not just as a cheap imitation of Japan. Though to get people interested they could also buy up some Japanese stories and reprint them (maybe have it half-and-half with the British stuff reading "forwards" and the Japanese stuff reading "backwards"... didn't i post about this before? XD).
Of course the British stories would be done in the style of The Victor or The Beano (ideally Dudley D Watkins!) depending on the content. If i was doing it i'd even reprint text stories from Amalgamated Press or DCT (depending on who was doing it). British "comics" had text stories for a good two thirds of thier history after all.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:35 pm

Oi, their history isn't over yet, y'know! Demoralising use of the past tense there, Mike! Laughing

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by felneymike on Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:44 pm

Haha, i meant "up to this point". Mind you my maths is probably out as i think the first "Penny dreadful" type things first appeared in around the 1840's but picture-story comics didn't start to "take over" until the 1950's

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:59 pm

Funny Folks was about the first title to regular feature strips. That was, what, the 1870s? And by 1890 Illustrated Chips was out there, and Comic Cuts...

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by Hourglass on Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:24 am

felneymike wrote:"Because manga sells better!", but it sells to people who love Japanese comics and cartoons, and will buy any old rubbish because it's Japanese.

For the record I'm fairly picky on what I buy regarding Manga. Theres actually only a few titles I follow these days as I have found the later ones uninspiring.

I do think, though, that the format of Manga with hundreds of pages for a cheap price because it's printed on bog paper [/quote]

Actually if you buy the Bunkoban versions, they are printed on VERY expensive paper which almost feels laminated much like the MArvel comics you buy in the USA

I have to say I'm with Tony on this one. Unless you use a style that exists with your own design to make something new its a bit sad to copy someone else style.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by alanultron5 on Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:35 am

Having seen samples of it in "Crikey!" the `Albion` concept would make me lose the will to live!

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:42 am

alanultron5 wrote:Having seen samples of it in "Crikey!" the `Albion` concept would make me lose the will to live!
I think albion would be virtually impossible to pull off on screen, anyway-there's just too much background detail in it, and most of the characters are too obscure to work without a proper introduction which would leave you with a movie about nine hours long. But given the current climate, you'd be more likely to see an attempt at an Albion movie than any of the characters in their original settings.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by alanultron5 on Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:48 am

It is the concept of `perverting` (I choose the word forcibly) old comic characters in such a way that sickens me! Personally, I just cannot see why it is done and what the piont is at all! A `perversion` is a `perversion` and for me, the Albion concept means just that - a `perversion`

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:59 am

alanultron5 wrote:It is the concept of `perverting` (I choose the word forcibly) old comic characters in such a way that sickens me! Personally, I just cannot see why it is done and what the piont is at all! A `perversion` is a `perversion` and for me, the Albion concept means just that - a `perversion`
I can see your point, and to a degree, I agree with it. But it's inevitable that characters will be changed to appeal to modern audiences, I'm afraid. The majority of comics readers these days are now older than they were when these characters debuted, and for close to thirty years now the dark n' gritty comic has been king. Everything has to have that kind of spin on it in order to have a hope of succeeding, sadly. Even Dandy and Beano have gone rather downmarket, with humour I consider rather crass, because it's what their readers will respond to.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by felneymike on Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:24 pm

tony ingram wrote:Funny Folks was about the first title to regular feature strips. That was, what, the 1870s? And by 1890 Illustrated Chips was out there, and Comic Cuts...

I know that, but it was by the 1950's that text-only papers were being shut down en masse/updated because the picture story comics were taking over.

Shame, the text only ones must have given much better value for money. Mind you it depends how much free time you have to read it all!

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by bergspyder on Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:09 am

Come on guys, someone , somewhere loves them so show a little respect for diversity please. My little brother, Mickey, would read anything in the 60's and 70's lol!
Come to think of it, nothing has changed except he is now a publisher / designer / joint editor / artistic director / administrator / stamp licker and general factotum for two publications with more planned. Subscriptions anyone?
Crikey rocks

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:50 am

Hey, look who's stopped lurking! Welcome to the party!

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by alanultron5 on Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:28 pm

I'm afraid I don't hold much hope for `Dandy Extreme` the one I saw, quite awful-to me! Maybe Thomsons decided they have to aim at a `small-solid-core` of readers who love `Fart N' Snot` jokes! Survive at `Any` cost I suppose!

As for `Albion` (no! `Not` the `Baggies! Wink Even if I am the only `Nay-sayer` I hold to my point... for me its smacks of `perversion`

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:50 pm

I think most people have been expecting Dandy to bite the dust for years. I'm amazed it's clinging on, yet Beano-which is closer to the traditional format-still sells well, as does Commando. I'm sure there's a lesson to be learned there.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by Hourglass on Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:35 pm

I think dandy could survive in some online format of sorts if the printed version goes under.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:51 pm

Hourglass wrote:I think dandy could survive in some online format of sorts if the printed version goes under.
Only trouble is, online comics don't make a great deal of money, or so I'm told. I'm not sure it would pay Thomson's to do it.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by happyhooker on Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:50 pm

Warren's 1984/1994.

I was looking for a replacement for Marvel's sadly axed Unknown Worlds Of Science Fiction and all Warren gave me was sexism and racism.

There's one particular strip that has to be read to be believed as far as racism went. I can't recall what it was called but I rememeber that last page making me feel quite sick.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by happyhooker on Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:53 pm

alanultron5 wrote:Having seen samples of it in "Crikey!" the `Albion` concept would make me lose the will to live!

I reviewed Albion in Comics International, suggesting it was a bit like getting your granny to dance around in a thong. Not a pretty sight.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:24 pm

happyhooker wrote:Warren's 1984/1994.

I was looking for a replacement for Marvel's sadly axed Unknown Worlds Of Science Fiction and all Warren gave me was sexism and racism.

There's one particular strip that has to be read to be believed as far as racism went. I can't recall what it was called but I rememeber that last page making me feel quite sick.
Warren came out with some rather dubious material at times.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by felneymike on Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:04 pm

happyhooker wrote:
There's one particular strip that has to be read to be believed as far as racism went. I can't recall what it was called but I rememeber that last page making me feel quite sick.

Wasn't "Ministry of Space" was it? It was brilliant and suggested a world in which Britain had continued to rule the waves and eventually outer space, having colonies on the moon and on mars by 2001. Then on the last page they had to go and ruin it by showing a woman being forced to live in a "blacks only" part of the space station, because anything that talks about Britain being great must have racism behind it!

The thing is, on the pages just before it had shown the higher-ups in the Ministry of space, who controlled this glorious new empire of the stars... and one of them was an Indian!

I reviewed Albion in Comics International, suggesting it was a bit like getting your granny to dance around in a thong. Not a pretty sight.

But it's by ALAN MOORE* therefore it must be good! I suppose you got heaps of hate mail?

*-well, his daughter and her boyfriend, anyway.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by Mbast1 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:21 am

Hourglass wrote:I think we must all have experienced this: walk into your comic shop to see whats on sale and then you see a particualr comic which makes you feel god almighty who in the right mind would make this never buy this, which makes you think is the comic industry hitting an all time low.

Any of the comics with covers that look like porn, or porn as imagined by 13 year olds. I just want to stuff all that crap in the bins, I really do.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:53 am

You mean like the Dejah Thoris nude cover variants?

I still don't understand why a company that's putting out some of the best comics going has to resort to cheap, sensationalistic gimmicks like that. I'm sure Dejah Thoris would sell just as well without it if properly promoted.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by Mbast1 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:37 pm

tony ingram wrote:You mean like the Dejah Thoris nude cover variants?.

Exactly. I want to read that series, I just have never been able to get past the covers. Ridiculous, IMO.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:42 pm

The actual series is, I think, very well written.


Last edited by tony ingram on Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by Mbast1 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:30 am

tony ingram wrote:The actual series is, I think, very well written.

Yeah, so I've heard. I will have to see if you can find them without the awful covers.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:57 am

The only actual difference between the ordinary covers and the "risque" covers is the lack of Dejah's ornamental nipple covers...

And to be fair, in the original books none of the inhabitants of Barsoom wear any clothes at all except jewelry, so she's probably overdressed!

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by Mbast1 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:50 pm

tony ingram wrote:The only actual difference between the ordinary covers and the "risque" covers is the lack of Dejah's ornamental nipple covers...

Ok. I looked, my nearest LCS doesn't have the earlier ones, or any trades. I'd like to read it, but I just am bothered by the kind of titillation used to sell many comics. Creepy. But, I do still want to check this out.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:33 am

ebay is your best bet, I think. They're not hard to come by.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by Mbast1 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:33 am

tony ingram wrote:ebay is your best bet, I think. They're not hard to come by.

I don't know why, since I buy from Ebay often, but I don't usually think of them as a place to buy comics. Thanks for the reminder!

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:24 am

I've been buying and selling on ebay for years, and you can still find bargains particularly since most of the well established comic dealers now have an ebay presence for their low end items. There are other auction sites which are better, but they sadly tend to get very little traffic by comparison as ebay have become too well known.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by Sam_Vimes on Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:15 am

Much of DC's output these days makes me hang my head in shame when I see it. I'm not trolling or anything, it's just disheartening to see the somewhat dated style of Image and its EXTREMELY dated characters intermingling with what was once a superior brand. I mean, Superman fighting Helspont? Come on. And JLI #7 may well have the worst cover I've seen since Liefeld's heyday. It's just so awful. . . .

Also, I dislike the porn-looking comics by Dynamite as well. It's nothing to do with the interiors, as I've liked every one of their comics that I've actually read, but those smutty EXteriors are pretty hard to look past, especially since I go to the comic book store with my wife and my daughter.

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:44 am

There seems to be something of a backlash against Dynamite's covers (though to be fair, it's mostly only the ERB related books that go in for that kind of titillation). I can think of at least one company that were worse offenders in that regard though: an eighties independent publisher called Aircel...


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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by Sam_Vimes on Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:01 am

Oh my. Yes, I just googled "Aircel Comics" and I definitely see what you mean. Of course, those covers are drawn so amateurishly that they're more funny than erotic. Were their artists 14 year old boys or what?

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Re: Comics which just make you hang your head in shame

Post by tony ingram on Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:07 am

If the artists weren't, I think most of their readers certainly were. Leather & Lace was particularly bad; each issue came in two variant editions, effectively the "straight" edition and the "porn" edition, and here I'm talking about the interiors, not the covers.

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