Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

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Who Are Your Favourite Avengers?

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Total Votes : 5

Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:00 am

I've been re-reading some old Avengers stories lately and it's made me realize all over again how much I prefer the Avengers of the 70s and early 80s, particularly the Steve Englehart stuff, than the stories of the last decade. I think a big part of that is that I really have quite a fixed view of which characters actually belong in the team, and I can't really expand that somehow to include characters like Spider-Man, Wolverine, Spider-Woman and Luke Cage. To me, the Avengers are not street level heroes, they're the ones who handle the big stuff! So, am I right or wrong? Who does everyone think are the definitive Avengers lineup? I've included a poll, but it's fairly limited, obviously, so feel free to nominate versions I've missed out.

My personal definitive line-up is the one from the Englehart 'Celestial Madonna' saga: Thor, Iron Man, Vision, Scarlet With, the Swordsman, Mantis and Hawkeye.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Sam_Vimes on Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:47 am

Well, MY "definitive" Avengers comes from this era right here:



That was actually my first Avengers comic, you see, bought from the back issue boxes by my young self because it had the most striking cover, or something (kids are dumb). I'm still impressed by the story in this one, and it prompted me to get a bunch of other ones from around the same time (I didn't like the then-current team, which I think had Sersi and everybody was wearing the same jacket and the art was AWFUL, so it was nice to have some old Avengers to turn to instead).

I never read the Englehart stuff, but I imagine I can get it in a trade or something, right? I've heard nothing but good things.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:10 am

That period from #211 to about the mid eighties was a really good one for the Avengers. Hank Pym's whole journey from downfall to redemption was great, it's a shame later writers completely screwed him up as a character. Few have been as misused as Hank.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Sam_Vimes on Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:17 am

tony ingram wrote:That period from #211 to about the mid eighties was a really good one for the Avengers. Hank Pym's whole journey from downfall to redemption was great, it's a shame later writers completely screwed him up as a character. Few have been as misused as Hank.

Oh, I know. There's a stigma about him that I don't think he'll ever be able to shake, especially if the rumors I'm hearing are true and he's the VILLAIN in Edgar Wright's "Ant-Man".
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:21 am

I think the villain rumour may have been a misunderstanding. But I agree about the stigma. As with so many things, I blame Bendis.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Sam_Vimes on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:38 am

I remember liking Bendis when he was fresh, new voice in Ultimate Spider-Man...but then he became the ONLY voice. And it was always snarky.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:38 am

Sam_Vimes wrote:I remember liking Bendis when he was fresh, new voice in Ultimate Spider-Man...but then he became the ONLY voice. And it was always snarky.
And every character he writes has that same snarky voice. Even the ones who never were before. Spider-Woman, Carol Danvers, Iron Fist, all have the same basically jaded and cynical personality now, thanks to him. Or is it just that that is what modern audiences expect from all their fictional heroes these days? Crying or Very sad 
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Lucy McGough on Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:09 pm

Sadly, I think it is. We'll be having a jaded and cynical Superman any day now.

(Hmmm... was that a jaded and cynical thing for me to say? Oh crumbs, now I'm confused.)
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Mbast1 on Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:23 am

Lucy McGough wrote:Sadly, I think it is. We'll be having a jaded and cynical Superman any day now.

Actually, that was how Man of Steel came across to me. A Superman who actually seems overwhelmed by what's going on around him.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Lucy McGough on Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:58 am

Fortunately, I can't remember much of that movie. It was awfully... grey.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:07 am

I severed all ties with Superman in September 2011, and from what I hear, I don't think I've missed much.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Lucy McGough on Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:58 am

Apart from him making love to Wonder Woman.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:48 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:Apart from him making love to Wonder Woman.
I would say "William Moulton Marston would be turning in his grave". Except that by all accounts, he'd probably thoroughly approve...
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Lucy McGough on Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:32 pm

Especially if bondage gear was involved. Was it?
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:42 pm

Lucy McGough wrote:Especially if bondage gear was involved. Was it?
For that kind of detail, you'd need to ask someone who bought it!

Anyway: who are your favourite Avengers?
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Philip K Ditko on Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:13 pm

My favourite era was the early 70s. The first issue I read was #112 by Steve Englehart and Don Heck, witjh the Lion God - one of Heck's better efforts and Frank Bolle was an underrated inker. I lost interest when Tom DeFalco filled in for a couple of issues, then David Michelinie's run was a big disappointment despite nice artwork and I didn't think Jim Shooter's second run was a patch on his first. Shooter claimed the Hank Pym wife-beating thing wasn't his fault and the artist Bob Hall had over-dramatised a panel that had been plotted as Hank accidentally slapping Jan while making a gesture.


I thought Roger Stern and Kurt Busiek's runs were pretty good. I hated Brian Micheal Bendis's pacing and disregard for continuity, and Spider-Man and Wolverine have no business becoming Avengers.

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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:47 pm

I think "over dramatising" is something of an understatement. I'd forgotten how violent that scene was.  Shocked 

I completely agree regarding Bendis (and, indeed, Spider-Man and Wolverine as Avengers. And Spider Woman, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Dr Strange, for that matter). I have never understood why Bendis is so highly regarded as a writer. I've never forgiven him for Spider Woman: Origin!
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Philip K Ditko on Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:38 pm

I've never heard of Spider Woman: Origin before. What did you dislike about it?

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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:24 pm

Philip K Ditko wrote:I've never heard of Spider Woman: Origin before.  What did you dislike about it?
Basically, in the space of one five issue series, Bendis totally rewrote Spider-Woman's origin in such a way that most of her early appearances just couldn't have happened-and because the man is totally clueless about Marvel continuity and how interconnected everything tends to be, the repercussions of his rewrite should logically have impacted on the lives of several other major characters including Adam Warlock,  Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch, since his creation of a new version of Edgar Wyndham in that series pretty much negated the High Evolutionary as a character. He later did something similar with the Beyonder, basically trying to write off Secret Wars II as all a big hoax perpetrated by a confused mutant Inhuman, clearly without having a clue that the story had significantly impacted on several ongoing series' at the time and that the Beyonder had returned later. The man is a moron. And so are the "editors" who don't know enough to correct him.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Sam_Vimes on Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:20 pm

Editors? CORRECT things? Pfft. They don't have time for that!
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:57 am

I don't really understand what editors do, these days. They don't seem to actually edit...
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by karatattoo on Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:50 am

Late 70s/early 80s.

I really enjoyed the expanded line-ups and that finally the teams had more women on them than the typical token one.

Wasn't it around this time that the Wasp became a team leader?
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:22 am

karatattoo wrote:Late 70s/early 80s.

I really enjoyed the expanded line-ups and that finally the teams had more women on them than the typical token one.

Wasn't it around this time that the Wasp became a team leader?
Yes, shortly before the first Secret Wars, late 1983 or very early '84, I think.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by indybrand13 on Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:54 pm

tigra. ant man

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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:51 pm

indybrand13 wrote:tigra.  ant man
Now would that be the original Ant Man, or Scott Lang?
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by indybrand13 on Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:16 pm

the original..

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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:49 am

indybrand13 wrote:the original..
I like Pym, but I always preferred him as Goliath rather than Ant Man, personally. Possibly because that's how I first got to know him.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Lucy McGough on Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:29 pm

We always imprint on the first incarnation of a character we encounter. Then a bit later we discover that everyone else thinks of those versions as fake or substandard. I like the Kyle Rayner Green Lantern, and blue electric Superman, and Wally West as the Flash, and Cassandra Cain as Batgirl. And, although it's not the same thing, I prefer Plastic Man to the Elongated Man, and Zauriel to Hawkman.
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by tony ingram on Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:25 am

Lucy McGough wrote:We always imprint on the first incarnation of a character we encounter. Then a bit later we discover that everyone else thinks of those versions as fake or substandard. I like the Kyle Rayner Green Lantern, and blue electric Superman, and Wally West as the Flash, and Cassandra Cain as Batgirl. And, although it's not the same thing, I prefer Plastic Man to the Elongated Man, and Zauriel to Hawkman.
Eletric Superman? Really? I think you may be the first person I've ever heard admit to liking him...
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Re: Who Are Your Favourite Classic Avengers?

Post by Lucy McGough on Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:20 am

Somebody has to Very Happy
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