Greg Rucka Lays into Marvel and DC, and is Done with Both

Greg Rucka seems to be the latest creator to sever ties with the big two, having announced that he will be leaving Marvel for the forseeable future after his current projects are wrapped up, apparently at least partly due to dissatisfaction over having the Punisher yanked away from him to feature in a new team book, and saying that DC treated himm badly after he'd given them seven years of his life. In an interview pretty much guaranteed to piss off both companies, he attacks the "Hollywoodization" of both companies and says they basically no longer care about the creators or the quality of the product, only about getting books out on time. So, are the biggest threats to the future of American comics really Time Warner and Disney?

Good for Mr Rucka.

tony ingram wrote:he attacks the "Hollywoodization" of both companies and says they basically no longer care about the creators or the quality of the product, only about getting books out on time.

I'm not sure I think they ever really did care about the creators. They only gave up some things because of intense pressure. Sure, some of the editors cared at times (at least they seemed to) but the businesses themselves weren't about selling the best product as much as getting out what they knew would sell.
As to getting the books out on time, that's a complaint about which I have little sympathy. It's a monthly product. Until that changes (and I don't have a problem with that changing, I'd even prefer to get a full story told when it's done rather than just pumping out something to fill the shelves) that IS what they're being paid to do. If you don't want to have to write to a deadline, don't take a paycheck from a place where that's the expectation. (Again, please do change the expectation, but you can't have it both ways).

They used to stockpile inventory stories so that if something was running unavoidably late, the creators had some breathing space.

tony ingram wrote:They used to stockpile inventory stories so that if something was running unavoidably late, the creators had some breathing space.

True, and that might work now, but it's a different model. People expect the same creators, a continuity (there's that word...) and just throwing in a random story might not work as well now. Might, might not. I do recall plenty of people throwing a fit about it being done at times over the last decade although I don't recall enough details to make a guess about what was going on.

Mbast1 wrote:

tony ingram wrote:They used to stockpile inventory stories so that if something was running unavoidably late, the creators had some breathing space.

True, and that might work now, but it's a different model. People expect the same creators, a continuity (there's that word...) and just throwing in a random story might not work as well now. Might, might not. I do recall plenty of people throwing a fit about it being done at times over the last decade although I don't recall enough details to make a guess about what was going on.

There does seem to be a strong sense of entitlement amongst comics readers (and yes, I'm aware I'm frequently guilty of it myself when it comes to things like the loss of the JSA) which is often accompanied by a total disregard for the people actually writing and drawing the things (which I would hope I am not guilty of). The attitude appears to be that creators should slave away 24/7 to get books out on time and if they have any problems with the way they are treated by their employers they should just keep quiet about it, as though they were indentured servants. It's rather depressing.

Well, I'm off to CBR to see what the DC fanboys are saying about Rucka, then. It's probably just as you say, Tony, "depressing". . .but ALSO entertaining.

Sam_Vimes wrote:Well, I'm off to CBR to see what the DC fanboys are saying about Rucka, then. It's probably just as you say, Tony, "depressing". . .but ALSO entertaining.

Any bets on who'll quit next?

Keith Giffen. I'm surprised he ever signed on at all.

That wouldn't surprise me, I'll admit.

tony ingram wrote:There does seem to be a strong sense of entitlement amongst comics readers

I don't see it as entitlement, because it's not about me. I just don't think it's a bad thing to expect (in terms of the publishers) that when you pay someone to do something according to the schedule they know publishers use (comics are generally done monthly) they actually do it. I know things go wrong, and I don't have a problem waiting until things come (in the US Miracleman once took almost 2 years between issues, and I bought it) as a consumer, but from the POV of the publisher I don't think it's ok. I don't think this is a matter of mistreating creators, just an expectation of the job.

tony ingram wrote:The attitude appears to be that creators should slave away 24/7 to get books out on time and if they have any problems with the way they are treated by their employers they should just keep quiet about it, as though they were indentured servants.

I hope you're not imputing this to me, because that's not how I see it at all. I don't expect the books, as a consumer, but I think employers have the right to expect what they pay for.

It wasn't you I was thinking of, I assure you. I see this attitude a lot on other boards though, particularly CBR.

tony ingram wrote:It wasn't you I was thinking of, I assure you. I see this attitude a lot on other boards though, particularly CBR.

I try to be careful to not become an entitled fan, but it's not as though I'm immune to it. I just wasn't thinking about it that way.
I find the CBR boards difficult to deal with, in large part for that very reason. DC had a few people with the "give me my books and I don't care about anything else" attitude (or worse, one guy said that writers and artists need to be paid minimum wage so that they didn't get too full of themselves and forget they could be replaced), but CBR seems to have TONS of them. And I don't really like the moderators, either. I don't post online much anymore anywhere, been busy, but I can't really get into that place. At least without getting stupidly angry...

I roam around a number of boards in order to keep up to date with what's going on in the industry, but my reaction to CBR is usually much the same as yours. It's strange how different boards develop different, distinctive 'feels', how certain types of people seem to 'find' each other, somehow...

tony ingram wrote:It's strange how different boards develop different, distinctive 'feels', how certain types of people seem to 'find' each other, somehow...

That must be why we're all such erudite, well-balanced, witty and charming people on here

Lucy McGough wrote:

tony ingram wrote:It's strange how different boards develop different, distinctive 'feels', how certain types of people seem to 'find' each other, somehow...

That must be why we're all such erudite, well-balanced, witty and charming people on here

Whassat!!? Ahh...I luv you, you're my best mate! I luv you all! >hic<

Apart from the forum staff, of course. They're all idiots

Lucy McGough wrote:

tony ingram wrote:It's strange how different boards develop different, distinctive 'feels', how certain types of people seem to 'find' each other, somehow...

That must be why we're all such erudite, well-balanced, witty and charming people on here

I don't think there's anything wrong with like-minded people meeting, it's just the enforced lockstep that happens which is an issue. It's a comic fora, so it is already kind of a niche, but it's the even more specialized groupings, and the ostracism of outsiders that's a big deal.
Then again, that's the internet.

I don't think it's just the internet where it happens. Years ago, a friend of a friend of mine, a very shy person, plucked up the courage to go along to a meeting of a Sherlock Holmes fan society. Big mistake. She was ridiculed for not having the in-depth knowledge of Holmes canon required by the group, and sneered at for passing a positive opinion about a Holmes story by someone other than Conan Doyle. She was deeply upset and never went back.

tony ingram wrote:She was ridiculed for not having the in-depth knowledge of Holmes canon required by the group, and sneered at for passing a positive opinion about a Holmes story by someone other than Conan Doyle. She was deeply upset and never went back.

This often happens with the outcast in-groups people form. They become caught up in the "they hate us because we have secret knowledge" mindset and attack others for not being part of the in-group.

Are there any humans out there without some form of mental illness?

Probably not.

Lucy McGough wrote:Are there any humans out there without some form of mental illness?

I hesitate to say this, doing what I do for a living, but I think the answer is no. We're all burdened with less than perfect hard and software.

What doi you do for a living?

Lucy McGough wrote:What doi you do for a living?

I work with the mentally ill.

Doesn't that make going on the internet in your spare time a bit of a busman's holiday?

Lucy McGough wrote:Doesn't that make going on the internet in your spare time a bit of a busman's holiday?

I want to make a joke, but I won't...

Mbast1 wrote:

Lucy McGough wrote:

tony ingram wrote:It's strange how different boards develop different, distinctive 'feels', how certain types of people seem to 'find' each other, somehow...

That must be why we're all such erudite, well-balanced, witty and charming people on here

I don't think there's anything wrong with like-minded people meeting, it's just the enforced lockstep that happens which is an issue. It's a comic fora, so it is already kind of a niche, but it's the even more specialized groupings, and the ostracism of outsiders that's a big deal.
Then again, that's the internet.

LOL. Agreed. Pretty soon this will be the only comics forum that my "Spektre" persona can post in any longer.

Fortunately, I learned the ins and outs of forums long ago and have multiple alt accounts at every board I belong to.

Mbast1 wrote:It's a comic fora

No, IT is a forum, THEY ARE fora.
Sorry, I know it's pedantic, but it bugs me so I fixed it...

Mbast1 wrote:

Mbast1 wrote:It's a comic fora

No, IT is a forum, THEY ARE fora.
Sorry, I know it's pedantic, but it bugs me so I fixed it...

I can understand that. I'm glad I'm not the only one who obsesses over details.

I have been known to edit my posts when I've noticed I've used .. instead of ...

Doesn't everyone?

tony ingram wrote:I have been known to edit my posts when I've noticed I've used .. instead of ...

I rarely look back at what I've written, it's kinda childish, but if I see it and it's wrong, it makes me feel stupid. I hate that.

Ohhh, and another Spektre person bites the dust to the regime.

Spektre wrote:Ohhh, and another Spektre person bites the dust to the regime.

Where was it this time, Spek?

Tenz and the rest of the regime decided to ban me again. Appears "Herr" is not an honorific there.

Spektre wrote:Tenz and the rest of the regime decided to ban me again. Appears "Herr" is not an honorific there.

I suspect it may have been more about the way they perceived you as using the word. How long this time?

I'm rather suprised it took Rucka this long - his forward to Atomic Robo: The Ghost of Station X (highly recommended, btw) paints a picture of a man who has been suffering ill health as a result of working for the big two for some time. Indeed it indicates he had walked away from comics both as a writer and reader for some time.

Atomic Robo (he says, and why should I doubt him) was the title that restored his faith. All hail Robo and Dr Dinosaur!

I love Atomic Robo. My mate Rob at Central City Comics in Ipswich gave me the first TPB to read and I was hooked! Thanks, Rob.