JSA to Return at Last!

by **tony ingram** Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:02 am

It's just been confirmed that the world's first super team will finally be returning to the DCU proper in the September issue of Justice League! Best news I've heard in weeks! Anyone else excited?

by MajorHoy Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:38 pm

tony ingram wrote:It's just been confirmed that the world's first super team will finally be returning to the DCU proper in the September issue of Justice League! Best news I've heard in weeks! Anyone else excited?

Well, . . . with reservations.
First, it's being handled by Scott Snyder, who I've been less-than-enchanted with since the start of the New52.
Second, they're going to show up in “The Justice Doom War” in Justice League, apparently initially appearing in issue #31 in September (Part 2 of that arc). That's also connected to DC's Year of the Forever Underworld Unleashed Evil Villain mega-event, which I have no interest in.
Third, a group from the JL will encounter the JSA in the past, which will definitely be cool, but it's hard to say what that mean will mean in terms of a "present day" JSA going forward.

Here's a link to an article in Newsarama: https://www.newsarama.com/45563-justice-society-of-america-returns-to-dcu-this-fall.html

While it could all be leading to great things with the JSA, I've seen DC screw up too many things with them (or that were said to be with them and then at the last minute turned out to only be completely reimagined versions) before to have complete faith that they've learned their lessons and will do right by the JSA.

by **tony ingram** Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:23 pm

The article specifically states these will be the originals, not new versions. I think their present day status is being left to Johns to clear up in Doomsday Clock.

by MajorHoy Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:11 pm

tony ingram wrote:The article specifically states these will be the originals, not new versions. I think their present day status is being left to Johns to clear up in Doomsday Clock.

Well, "originals" won't be the exact original history because they have to do a little toying with the history. As in post-CoIE continuity, if the JSA wind up beginning on the same Earth as the present-day Justice League (unlike when they were from Earth-Two), they would be unlikely to have Superman, Batman, and the Diana version of Wonder Woman in their back-story. Whether the Terry Sloane version of Mr. Terrific was ever involved in their past may also be up for debate, as would be having a Black Canary back in the late 1940s.
(If there was a "Golden Age" version of Black Canary, I'm assuming she would no longer be the mother of the "current" version of Black Canary, though she could be related in a different way these days, like maybe a great-aunt or something?)
Also, are they being brought to the present-day for any ongoing return, and if so, from what point in time would that happen? How much of any Silver/Bronze Age history and additions would then be lost?
Still a lot of questions (at least in my mind) that would have to be addressed in future stories.

by **tony ingram** Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:26 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:The article specifically states these will be the originals, not new versions. I think their present day status is being left to Johns to clear up in Doomsday Clock.
Well, "originals" won't be the exact original history because they have to do a little toying with the history. As in post-CoIE continuity, if the JSA wind up beginning on the same Earth as the present-day Justice League (unlike when they were from Earth-Two), they would be unlikely to have Superman, Batman, and the Diana version of Wonder Woman in their back-story. Whether the Terry Sloane version of Mr. Terrific was ever involved in their past may also be up for debate, as would be having a Black Canary back in the late 1940s.
(If there was a "Golden Age" version of Black Canary, I'm assuming she would no longer be the mother of the "current" version of Black Canary, though she could be related in a different way these days, like maybe a great-aunt or something?)
Also, are they being brought to the present-day for any ongoing return, and if so, from what point in time would that happen? How much of any Silver/Bronze Age history and additions would then be lost?
Still a lot of questions (at least in my mind) that would have to be addressed in future stories.

I have a strong suspicion that their post-Crisis history will be restored. Wally West clearly remembered them in Rebirth.

by MajorHoy Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:41 am

tony ingram wrote:I have a strong suspicion that their post-Crisis history will be restored. Wally West clearly remembered them in Rebirth.

Wally initially remembered things that were, but then he started to get fuzzy on things he remembered, and some of the things he "remembered" just never happened anymore in the current reality (like being married with children).
Again, not all of the pre-Flashpoint backstory of the JSA will necessarily continue in the altered reality. (I'm assuming Hippolyta won't have been the "Golden Age" Wonder Woman anymore, and if the JSA members are somehow brought back to reality without having lived ALL of their former past, where would that leave Infinity Inc.? And are they really going to make present-day Black Canary the biological daughter of a woman who was actively fighting crime more than 70 years ago?)

by **tony ingram** Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:07 am

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:I have a strong suspicion that their post-Crisis history will be restored. Wally West clearly remembered them in Rebirth.
Wally initially remembered things that were, but then he started to get fuzzy on things he remembered, and some of the things he "remembered" just never happened anymore in the current reality (like being married with children).
Again, not all of the pre-Flashpoint backstory of the JSA will necessarily continue in the altered reality. (I'm assuming Hippolyta won't have been the "Golden Age" Wonder Woman anymore, and if the JSA members are somehow brought back to reality without having lived ALL of their former past, where would that leave Infinity Inc.? And are they really going to make present-day Black Canary the biological daughter of a woman who was actively fighting crime more than 70 years ago?)

But thbere's clearly still more of the story to be told as far as Wally's family is concerned, that's what's been motivating him for the last year or so after all. Black Canary? Well, the original BC might well be excised from continuity, but she was a fairly minor part of the previous (post-Crisis) continuity, too.

by MajorHoy Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:45 pm

tony ingram wrote:But there's clearly still more of the story to be told as far as Wally's family is concerned, that's what's been motivating him for the last year or so after all.

Memories of them have been. But I believe Linda Park has appeared during Rebirth and I thought she hasn't remembered previously being married and being the mother of two children.
Maybe Scott Lobdell and Brett Booth will deal with that in their upcoming mini-series.
https://www.newsarama.com/45556-wally-west-looks-for-redemption-after-heroes-in-crisis-in-new-solo-title.html

tony ingram wrote:Black Canary? Well, the original BC might well be excised from continuity, but she was a fairly minor part of the previous (post-Crisis) continuity, too.

Black Canary first became involved with the JSA in All-Star Comics #38 (December 1947-January 1948) and was included in stories until the group's final Golden Age issue (#57, cover-dated February-March 1951). That's 20 issues, or more than a third of that run. She was also part of the first JLA/JSA team-up in Justice League of America 21-22 and appeared in several of those yearly events.
I think it's a bit pushing it to label her a "minor part", considering she was involved in more Golden Age issues than many other characters associated with the JSA. How many adventures of the JSA were Hourman, Wildcat, Sandman, and Doctor Fate actively involved in?

by **tony ingram** Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:37 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:But there's clearly still more of the story to be told as far as Wally's family is concerned, that's what's been motivating him for the last year or so after all.
Memories of them have been. But I believe Linda Park has appeared during Rebirth and I thought she hasn't remembered previously being married and being the mother of two children.
Maybe Scott Lobdell and Brett Booth will deal with that in their upcoming mini-series.
https://www.newsarama.com/45556-wally-west-looks-for-redemption-after-heroes-in-crisis-in-new-solo-title.html

tony ingram wrote:Black Canary? Well, the original BC might well be excised from continuity, but she was a fairly minor part of the previous (post-Crisis) continuity, too.
Black Canary first became involved with the JSA in All-Star Comics #38 (December 1947-January 1948) and was included in stories until the group's final Golden Age issue (#57, cover-dated February-March 1951). That's 20 issues, or more than a third of that run. She was also part of the first JLA/JSA team-up in Justice League of America 21-22 and appeared in several of those yearly events.
I think it's a bit pushing it to label her a "minor part", considering she was involved in more Golden Age issues than many other characters associated with the JSA. How many adventures of the JSA were Hourman, Wildcat, Sandman, and Doctor Fate actively involved in?

Sure, but that Golden Age run is now a comparatively small part of their published history. Wildcat and Fate in particular have been pretty much core members since the mid 1970s, that's over forty years!

by MajorHoy Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:17 pm

tony ingram wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:But there's clearly still more of the story to be told as far as Wally's family is concerned, that's what's been motivating him for the last year or so after all.
Memories of them have been. But I believe Linda Park has appeared during Rebirth and I thought she hasn't remembered previously being married and being the mother of two children.
Maybe Scott Lobdell and Brett Booth will deal with that in their upcoming mini-series.
https://www.newsarama.com/45556-wally-west-looks-for-redemption-after-heroes-in-crisis-in-new-solo-title.html

tony ingram wrote:Black Canary? Well, the original BC might well be excised from continuity, but she was a fairly minor part of the previous (post-Crisis) continuity, too.
Black Canary first became involved with the JSA in All-Star Comics #38 (December 1947-January 1948) and was included in stories until the group's final Golden Age issue (#57, cover-dated February-March 1951). That's 20 issues, or more than a third of that run. She was also part of the first JLA/JSA team-up in Justice League of America 21-22 and appeared in several of those yearly events.
I think it's a bit pushing it to label her a "minor part", considering she was involved in more Golden Age issues than many other characters associated with the JSA. How many adventures of the JSA were Hourman, Wildcat, Sandman, and Doctor Fate actively involved in?
Sure, but that Golden Age run is now a comparatively small part of their published history. Wildcat and Fate in particular have been pretty much core members since the mid 1970s, that's over forty years!

But we don't know yet whether ALL of their post-Golden Age history is being restored yet or not, do we?

Is EVERYTHING guaranteed to suddenly revert to a total pre-Flashpoint continuity (as much as you may hope it might)? Question

by **tony ingram** Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:22 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:But there's clearly still more of the story to be told as far as Wally's family is concerned, that's what's been motivating him for the last year or so after all.
Memories of them have been. But I believe Linda Park has appeared during Rebirth and I thought she hasn't remembered previously being married and being the mother of two children.
Maybe Scott Lobdell and Brett Booth will deal with that in their upcoming mini-series.
https://www.newsarama.com/45556-wally-west-looks-for-redemption-after-heroes-in-crisis-in-new-solo-title.html

tony ingram wrote:Black Canary? Well, the original BC might well be excised from continuity, but she was a fairly minor part of the previous (post-Crisis) continuity, too.
Black Canary first became involved with the JSA in All-Star Comics #38 (December 1947-January 1948) and was included in stories until the group's final Golden Age issue (#57, cover-dated February-March 1951). That's 20 issues, or more than a third of that run. She was also part of the first JLA/JSA team-up in Justice League of America 21-22 and appeared in several of those yearly events.
I think it's a bit pushing it to label her a "minor part", considering she was involved in more Golden Age issues than many other characters associated with the JSA. How many adventures of the JSA were Hourman, Wildcat, Sandman, and Doctor Fate actively involved in?
Sure, but that Golden Age run is now a comparatively small part of their published history. Wildcat and Fate in particular have been pretty much core members since the mid 1970s, that's over forty years!
But we don't know yet whether ALL of their post-Golden Age history is being restored yet or not, do we?

Is EVERYTHING guaranteed to suddenly revert to a total pre-Flashpoint continuity (as much as you may hope it might)?

It's not guaranteed, no. But I can be optimistic!

by MajorHoy Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:49 am

tony ingram wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:But we don't know yet whether ALL of their post-Golden Age history is being restored yet or not, do we?

Is EVERYTHING guaranteed to suddenly revert to a total pre-Flashpoint continuity (as much as you may hope it might)?
It's not guaranteed, no. But I can be optimistic!

So, you also want this back in continuity?
JSA to Return at Last! 1747727-screen_capture_2

by **tony ingram** Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:01 am

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:But we don't know yet whether ALL of their post-Golden Age history is being restored yet or not, do we?

Is EVERYTHING guaranteed to suddenly revert to a total pre-Flashpoint continuity (as much as you may hope it might)?
It's not guaranteed, no. But I can be optimistic!
So, you also want this back in continuity?

Ah. Well. Yes. That. Umm...can I think about it?

by Mbast1 Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:51 pm

tony ingram wrote:Ah. Well. Yes. That. Umm...can I think about it?

I don't think that's fair. You can want a certain history back and still hope some things are left behind.

by **tony ingram** Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:33 am

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Ah. Well. Yes. That. Umm...can I think about it?

I don't think that's fair. You can want a certain history back and still hope some things are left behind.

It's extremely unfair, I agree. But...the Guggenheim run...ugh...

by Mbast1 Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:19 pm

tony ingram wrote:It's extremely unfair, I agree. But...the Guggenheim run...ugh...

I think mostly what I mean is that I can't think of any period where bad stories didn't happen.

by **tony ingram** Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:22 pm

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:It's extremely unfair, I agree. But...the Guggenheim run...ugh...

I think mostly what I mean is that I can't think of any period where bad stories didn't happen.

But few as bad as that!

by Mbast1 Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:05 pm

tony ingram wrote:But few as bad as that!

I bet we could come up with a list.

by **tony ingram** Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:54 am

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:But few as bad as that!

I bet we could come up with a list.

Actually, I think the JSA have been enerally pretty well served in terms of writing, at least since I first discovered them in the 70s. The revived All-Star run still holds up pretty well, I won't have a word said against Roy Thomas, then we had the excellent but sadly truncated early 90s run and then the generally excellent Robinson/Johns/Goyer period. It wasn't really until Guggenheim that things started to go wrong.

by MajorHoy Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:07 pm

tony ingram wrote:
Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:But few as bad as that!
I bet we could come up with a list.
Actually, I think the JSA have been enerally pretty well served in terms of writing, at least since I first discovered them in the 70s. The revived All-Star run still holds up pretty well, I won't have a word said against Roy Thomas, then we had the excellent but sadly truncated early 90s run and then the generally excellent Robinson/Johns/Goyer period. It wasn't really until Guggenheim that things started to go wrong.

There was the occasional JLA/JSA team-up back in the Silver/Bronze Age that was definitely more of a clunker than a keeper, but the real lasting problems were in that post-Infinite Crisis run, including Geoff Johns going overboard and giving us the fuster-cluck "Everybody is a LEGACY hero!" mess, including = cough! = Magog.
(Johns' post-IC Justice Society of America had its good points, but unfortunately its fair share of less-than-wonderful points, too.)

by **tony ingram** Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:17 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:But few as bad as that!
I bet we could come up with a list.
Actually, I think the JSA have been enerally pretty well served in terms of writing, at least since I first discovered them in the 70s. The revived All-Star run still holds up pretty well, I won't have a word said against Roy Thomas, then we had the excellent but sadly truncated early 90s run and then the generally excellent Robinson/Johns/Goyer period. It wasn't really until Guggenheim that things started to go wrong.
There was the occasional JLA/JSA team-up back in the Silver/Bronze Age that was definitely more of a clunker than a keeper, but the real lasting problems were in that post-Infinite Crisis run, including Geoff Johns going overboard and giving us the fuster-cluck "Everybody is a LEGACY hero!" mess, including = cough! = Magog.
(Johns' post-IC Justice Society of America had its good points, but unfortunately its fair share of less-than-wonderful points, too.)

And don't forget Red Beetle! Laughing

I think the only JLA/JSA team-up I considered a bit substandard was the final pre-Crisis one, which guest starred Supergirl.

by Mbast1 Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:39 pm

MajorHoy wrote:giving us the fuster-cluck "Everybody is a LEGACY hero!" mess,

I see this a fair lot of times in comics. That someone takes an interesting idea and just goes WAY too far, keeps using it over and over. That, to my mind, almost always creates bad stories.

by MajorHoy Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:28 am

By the way, interesting how there are some past Golden Age members not in that cover picture.

No Spectre. No Johnny Thunder. No Dr. Mid-Nite.
There's Wildcat (who wasn't officially a full member back in the Golden Age) but no Mr. Terrific (Terry Sloane version) who also filled in as a member for one issue back in the Golden Age.
And of course, there's no replacement for Wonder Woman.

But then again, it's just an image that may not totally depict what members would actually be in any story by Snyder. Also, that image makes it hard to pin-point if there's a specific time period during the Golden Age that they are trying to depict, since Starman replaced Hourman as a member of the JSA (in All Star Comics #8, cover-dated December 1941-January 1942), the same issue where Dr. Fate first wore his half-helmet in a JSA story, and the fact that Sandman originally last wore his green suit and gas mask in a Golden Age JSA story in All Star Comics #9 (February-March 1942).
Also, back in the Golden Age stories, Wildcat first appeared in a JSA adventure in All-Star Comics #24 (Spring 1945).

by **tony ingram** Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:40 am

I think the image simply depicts whichever characters we'll see when they initially show up again, not the full membership. We already know Johnny Thunder was a member.

by MajorHoy Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:54 pm

tony ingram wrote:I think the image simply depicts whichever characters we'll see when they initially show up again, not the full membership. We already know Johnny Thunder was a member.

I would think the image would more logically indicate who might appear in the story when some of the Justice League travels back to the +/-1940s and encounters the JSA, but the way comic book covers are done these days, there's a good chance it may not have anything top do with the actual story or what will be happening in the future beyond the fact that it depicts what people may think of as some members of the original "JSA".

by **tony ingram** Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:29 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:I think the image simply depicts whichever characters we'll see when they initially show up again, not the full membership. We already know Johnny Thunder was a member.
I would think the image would more logically indicate who might appear in the story when some of the Justice League travels back to the +/-1940s and encounters the JSA, but the way comic book covers are done these days, there's a good chance it may not have anything top do with the actual story or what will be happening in the future beyond the fact that it depicts what people may think of as some members of the original "JSA".

You really are a glass half empty guy when it comes to modern comics, aren't you? Can't we just assume that the creators know what they're doing and are showing these characters because they have decided it's time the JSA came back?

by MajorHoy Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:57 pm

tony ingram wrote:You really are a glass half empty guy when it comes to modern comics, aren't you? Can't we just assume that the creators know what they're doing and are showing these characters because they have decided it's time the JSA came back?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thank you. I needed a good laugh.

by **tony ingram** Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:07 pm

I give up...

by MajorHoy Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:05 pm

tony ingram wrote:I give up...

You make it sound like DC knew what it was doing when they let Tom King write Heroes in Crisis and how Wally West's story turned out from that.

by **tony ingram** Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:41 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:I give up...
You make it sound like DC knew what it was doing when they let Tom King write Heroes in Crisis and how Wally West's story turned out from that.

You're assuming I have any issues with how Tom King wrote HIC, or with how it turned out. I actually enjoyed it, and am Interested to see where Wally goes from here.

by **tony ingram** Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:13 pm

Flash #75, out last week, sees Barry Allen finally remember his true history, including the lost speedsters. Just seeing Jay again made my day, even in flashback...

by Mbast1 Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:52 pm

Just wanted to throw this out there for Tony:

https://www.cbr.com/black-adam-movie-justice-society-america-dwayne-johnson/

by **tony ingram** Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:28 pm

Mbast1 wrote:Just wanted to throw this out there for Tony:

https://www.cbr.com/black-adam-movie-justice-society-america-dwayne-johnson/

I'm really excited for this! At last!!! And they're apparently going to be appearing on the upcoming Stargirl TV show, too!

by Mbast1 Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:22 pm

tony ingram wrote:I'm really excited for this! At last!!! And they're apparently going to be appearing on the upcoming Stargirl TV show, too!

Different versions, though, then. So you would get double your JSA!

by MajorHoy Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:07 am

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:I'm really excited for this! At last!!! And they're apparently going to be appearing on the upcoming Stargirl TV show, too!
Different versions, though, then. So you would get double your JSA!

My problem is that I don't go see movies and I don't watch much new TV.

I just care about the comic book-versions, and even that I've pretty much given up on for now.

by **tony ingram** Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:09 pm

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:I'm really excited for this! At last!!! And they're apparently going to be appearing on the upcoming Stargirl TV show, too!

Different versions, though, then. So you would get double your JSA!

Any amount of JSA is too little!

by MajorHoy Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:59 pm

tony ingram wrote:
Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:I'm really excited for this! At last!!! And they're apparently going to be appearing on the upcoming Stargirl TV show, too!

Different versions, though, then. So you would get double your JSA!
Any amount of JSA is too little!

All depends on how well they are handled, though.

by **tony ingram** Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:18 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:
Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:I'm really excited for this! At last!!! And they're apparently going to be appearing on the upcoming Stargirl TV show, too!

Different versions, though, then. So you would get double your JSA!
Any amount of JSA is too little!
All depends on how well they are handled, though.

Well, yes. But then, I prefer to be optimistic. I'm quite enjoying their current appearances in Justice League.

by MajorHoy Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:10 pm

tony ingram wrote:Well, yes. But then, I prefer to be optimistic. I'm quite enjoying their current appearances in Justice League.

Does it really feel like the true JSA for you?
I haven't really read it, but what I have seen reading an online issue and flipping through an issue or two at the store doesn't quite seem like the JSA I remember. They seem a little too reworked for my tastes. (But then again, I'm not fond of Tynion's writing, and Snyder can also be less-than-enjoyable to read for my tastes.)

by **tony ingram** Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:37 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Well, yes. But then, I prefer to be optimistic. I'm quite enjoying their current appearances in Justice League.
Does it really feel like the true JSA for you?
I haven't really read it, but what I have seen reading an online issue and flipping through an issue or two at the store doesn't quite seem like the JSA I remember. They seem a little too reworked for my tastes. (But then again, I'm not fond of Tynion's writing, and Snyder can also be less-than-enjoyable to read for my tastes.)

I'm sorry, but they don't seem reworked at all to me. They've only really concentrated on Jay, Alan and Ted Knight so far, but they all seem pretty much in character....

by Mbast1 Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:25 am

MajorHoy wrote:I just care about the comic book-versions, and even that I've pretty much given up on for now.

I'm sorry to hear that, as I'm not big on thinking publishers care about what individual fans want and I know what it is to want what you won't ever get (Bronze Age Superman...). I hope, though, that you find enough other stuff you do like to make it worth your reading time.

by Mbast1 Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:27 am

tony ingram wrote:Any amount of JSA is too little!

Well, then, you're in luck!

by **tony ingram** Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:52 am

Mbast1 wrote:
tony ingram wrote:Any amount of JSA is too little!

Well, then, you're in luck!

Well, I certainly consider myself in a better position than I was a few years ago!

by MajorHoy Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:04 pm

Mbast1 wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:I just care about the comic book-versions, and even that I've pretty much given up on for now.
I'm sorry to hear that, as I'm not big on thinking publishers care about what individual fans want and I know what it is to want what you won't ever get (Bronze Age Superman...). I hope, though, that you find enough other stuff you do like to make it worth your reading time.

Can't find that, either, from DC and Marvel these days, though I admit I haven't bothered to check out much / anything from those two publishers these days. Didn't seem worth it to me after a while of trying.

DC was originally saying (back in 2016) that DC Universe: Rebirth #1 was suppose to return "hope" to the DC Universe, but eventually everything seemed to go back towards the dark-and-gloomy-and-despairing direction once again.

I've gone back to spending more of my time and money on actual books (+/-mid-20th century pulp stories and mystery series) instead.

by **tony ingram** Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:24 pm

MajorHoy wrote:
Mbast1 wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:I just care about the comic book-versions, and even that I've pretty much given up on for now.
I'm sorry to hear that, as I'm not big on thinking publishers care about what individual fans want and I know what it is to want what you won't ever get (Bronze Age Superman...). I hope, though, that you find enough other stuff you do like to make it worth your reading time.
Can't find that, either, from DC and Marvel these days, though I admit I haven't bothered to check out much / anything from those two publishers these days. Didn't seem worth it to me after a while of trying.

DC was originally saying (back in 2016) that DC Universe: Rebirth #1 was suppose to return "hope" to the DC Universe, but eventually everything seemed to go back towards the dark-and-gloomy-and-despairing direction once again.

I've gone back to spending more of my time and money on actual books (+/-mid-20th century pulp stories and mystery series) instead.

"Dark, gloomy and despairing"? I'm not sure I'd put a lot of DC's current output in that category. Let's see...Young Justice...Wonder Twins...Doom Patrol...Dial H For Hero...Legion of Superheroes...these are not gloomy books!

by MajorHoy Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:06 pm

tony ingram wrote:"Dark, gloomy and despairing"? I'm not sure I'd put a lot of DC's current output in that category. Let's see...Young Justice...Wonder Twins...Doom Patrol...Dial H For Hero...Legion of Superheroes...these are not gloomy books!

And quite a few of those I really have no interest in even trying.

by **tony ingram** Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:57 am

MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:"Dark, gloomy and despairing"? I'm not sure I'd put a lot of DC's current output in that category. Let's see...Young Justice...Wonder Twins...Doom Patrol...Dial H For Hero...Legion of Superheroes...these are not gloomy books!
And quite a few of those I really have no interest in even trying.

TBH, I'm kind of getting the impression there's no way either Marvel or DC could ever put out anything that would interest you anymore, regardless of what they do or what approach they take.

by MajorHoy Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:23 pm

tony ingram wrote:
MajorHoy wrote:
tony ingram wrote:"Dark, gloomy and despairing"? I'm not sure I'd put a lot of DC's current output in that category. Let's see...Young Justice...Wonder Twins...Doom Patrol...Dial H For Hero...Legion of Superheroes...these are not gloomy books!
And quite a few of those I really have no interest in even trying.
TBH, I'm kind of getting the impression there's no way either Marvel or DC could ever put out anything that would interest you anymore, regardless of what they do or what approach they take.

I wouldn't quite go that far.

It's more like they're direction is a polar opposite of what I really want these days, and they probably wouldn't make enough money (or so they think) in catering to people like me.

I have the same problem in other things, too. The brands / flavors in food I prefer suddenly get discontinued or "improved" (NOT!), or the clothing I've been buying suddenly is no longer available in the stores. Cars are going more high-tech and "connected" with the internet/"smart-phones", with keyless ignitions and such, while I don't want an automobile that can be hacked by a teenager. (Hell, I don't even have a smart phone. Just a lower-tech cell phone in case I need it while I'm out of the house, and that's in part because they don't have good-ol' pay phones available like they use to have back when I was a kid.)

I have more of a nostalgia for older things, but I'm not the primary audience of consumers that companies are targeting. It's just an unfortunate reality.

by **tony ingram** Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:55 pm

What do you want from them? What were the last series you really enjoyed? There must be something out there we can find...

by MajorHoy Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:36 am

tony ingram wrote:What do you want from them? What were the last series you really enjoyed? There must be something out there we can find...

Don't bother trying to come up with something. It's not worth it.

Stuff I might normally have liked has writers I don't bother with any longer.

I'm also at that +/-ten year period where I typically have grown tired with DC and Marvel's output. The last time I had been thoroughly enjoying comic books between 1985-1995. Prior to that, it was roughly from 1972-1983.

What got me started again back around 2010 was finding and reading the Captain America 70th Anniversary one-shot written by James Robinson. I'm not sure if DC really wants to give us a good comic book series written by writer(s) I enjoy set back during the WWII-era.

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