Marvel Murders Their First Ever Hero?

In the latest issue of The Avengers, out this week, the rivalry which writer Jonathan Hickman has been building up between Namor the Sub-Mariner and T'Challa, the Black Panther, comes to a spectacular conclusion as T'Challa tries to stab Namor to death, which would be a somewhat ignominious end for the very first Marvel character and one of the oldest American comics characters (Namor first appeared in an issue dated April 1939, a month earlier than DC's Batman). It's a logical development: Namor's kingdom of Atlantis and T'Challa's kingdom of Wakanda have been enemies since Defenders #83 (1980) and Atlantis basically bombed Wakanda out of existence a little while ago. But even though a wounded Namor is left on a doomed world, I suspect it's the Panther that's in trouble.

I suspect it's Marvel that may be in trouble.

Nah, they'll be OK. They always are.

I'd put money on T'Challa being the victor. He's super-fit and super-smart, and he has a PhD in physics from Oxford University. Is Namor an Oxbridge graduate?

Lucy McGough wrote:I'd put money on T'Challa being the victor. He's super-fit and super-smart, and he has a PhD in physics from Oxford University. Is Namor an Oxbridge graduate?

No, but he has superhuman strength, superhuman durability, and really interesting ears.

tony ingram wrote:

Lucy McGough wrote:I'd put money on T'Challa being the victor. He's super-fit and super-smart, and he has a PhD in physics from Oxford University. Is Namor an Oxbridge graduate?

No, but he has superhuman strength, superhuman durability, and really interesting ears.

Can he have "superhuman strength" if he's not a human?

Well, he's half human.

By the way, this thing with Panther killing Namor happens in the future, doesn't it? Aren't Hickman's Avengers titles doing a kind of Futures End thing? (I only read two issues of the Illuminati-starring Bastard Avengers, though I did read more of the adjectiveless Avengers until it was about to get sucked into yet another frequent Marvel EVENT® (collect them ALL!) that was soon quickly ignored.

MajorHoy wrote:By the way, this thing with Panther killing Namor happens in the future, doesn't it? Aren't Hickman's Avengers titles doing a kind of Futures End thing? (I only read two issues of the Illuminati-starring Bastard Avengers, though I did read more of the adjectiveless Avengers until it was about to get sucked into yet another frequent Marvel EVENT® (collect them ALL!) that was soon quickly ignored.

Eight months in the future, yes.

Anyone can have superhuman strength. That's what chimpanzees, oxen, horses and elephants have, for example. It just means 'more than human'.

Lucy McGough wrote:Anyone can have superhuman strength. That's what chimpanzees, oxen, horses and elephants have, for example. It just means 'more than human'.

You take all the fun out of everything, McGough.

tony ingram wrote:

MajorHoy wrote:By the way, this thing with Panther killing Namor happens in the future, doesn't it? Aren't Hickman's Avengers titles doing a kind of Futures End thing? (I only read two issues of the Illuminati-starring Bastard Avengers, though I did read more of the adjectiveless Avengers until it was about to get sucked into yet another frequent Marvel EVENT® (collect them ALL!) that was soon quickly ignored.

Eight months in the future, yes.

So, any chance that "Eight Months Later . . . " stuff doesn't actually happen and is just a possible near-term future?

MajorHoy wrote:

tony ingram wrote:

MajorHoy wrote:By the way, this thing with Panther killing Namor happens in the future, doesn't it? Aren't Hickman's Avengers titles doing a kind of Futures End thing? (I only read two issues of the Illuminati-starring Bastard Avengers, though I did read more of the adjectiveless Avengers until it was about to get sucked into yet another frequent Marvel EVENT® (collect them ALL!) that was soon quickly ignored.

Eight months in the future, yes.

So, any chance that "Eight Months Later . . . " stuff doesn't actually happen and is just a possible near-term future?

It's entirely possible, but I'm not putting money on it. I'm totally bewildered by what Hickman is doing, to be honest.

tony ingram wrote:

MajorHoy wrote:

tony ingram wrote:

MajorHoy wrote:By the way, this thing with Panther killing Namor happens in the future, doesn't it? Aren't Hickman's Avengers titles doing a kind of Futures End thing? (I only read two issues of the Illuminati-starring Bastard Avengers, though I did read more of the adjectiveless Avengers until it was about to get sucked into yet another frequent Marvel EVENT® (collect them ALL!) that was soon quickly ignored.

Eight months in the future, yes.

So, any chance that "Eight Months Later . . . " stuff doesn't actually happen and is just a possible near-term future?

It's entirely possible, but I'm not putting money on it. I'm totally bewildered by what Hickman is doing, to be honest.

Well, I'm not reading Hickman's Avengers/Nuclear Avengers, and I didn't read Axis, but from what bits and pieces I hear, I'm totally bewildered by what Marvel is doing anyway.

Between Hickman's Avengers, Spiderverse and what's happening in the X-books, the Marvel multiverse appears to be unravelling. I'm half expecting the arrival of the Anti-Watcher!

tony ingram wrote:You take all the fun out of everything, McGough.

Au contraire. I'm just a fan of accuracy.

tony ingram wrote:Between Hickman's Avengers, Spiderverse and what's happening in the X-books, the Marvel multiverse appears to be unravelling. I'm half expecting the arrival of the Anti-Watcher!

Close enough. Looks as if they're rebooting:

http://www.newsarama.com/23276-the-marvel-universe-is-ending.html

(At least, that's what people seem to be expecting, a reboot)

And that will be me done with Marvel after forty years, just as 2011 saw me part company with DC after thirty six. Clearly, they really don't want their older longtime fans anymore.

At least in this new universe Mary-Jane and Peter can get married again.

tony ingram wrote:And that will be me done with Marvel after forty years, just as 2011 saw me part company with DC after thirty six. Clearly, they really don't want their older longtime fans anymore.

But what if it's more like a CoIE change where there's much that stays somewhat as it was vs. the New 52 throwing the baby out with most of the bathwater?

It's not sounding much like it, to be honest.

OK, things are now getting interesting. Namor has survived, the New Avengers appear to have fallen apart, and it looks as though the guiding hand behind the collapse of the multiverse is...the Beyonders, the mysterious, godlike race who once stole Counter Earth, and who were once thought to be responsible for the creation of the Beyonder himself! Here comes another Secret War!

tony ingram wrote:OK, things are now getting interesting. Namor has survived, the New Avengers appear to have fallen apart, and it looks as though the guiding hand behind the collapse of the multiverse is...the Beyonders, the mysterious, godlike race who once stole Counter Earth, and who were once thought to be responsible for the creation of the Beyonder himself! Here comes =redacted=

Hey!

You know what they say about "Loose lips . . . "

Well, I doubt if there's anyone on the internet who hasn't worked it out...

tony ingram wrote:Well, I doubt if there's anyone on the internet who hasn't worked it out...

But . . . but . . . it's a ecret-say!

MajorHoy wrote:

tony ingram wrote:Well, I doubt if there's anyone on the internet who hasn't worked it out...

But . . . but . . . it's a ecret-say!  

A..what?

Strong hints going around now that, despite having been decapitated on-panel, Namor may be about to return...

tony ingram wrote:Strong hints going around now that, despite having been decapitated on-panel, Namor may be about to return...

I feel as if someone has lost their mind, and I just can't tell if it's me or everyone else.

I stopped reading Squadron Supreme (despite looking forward to it) for just this act. This sounds awful.

Well, it's not really any worse than Geoff Johns's penchant for ripping people's arms off...

tony ingram wrote:Well, it's not really any worse than Geoff Johns's penchant for ripping people's arms off...

True, but I'm more bothered by murder in general that any specific mechanism.

Whose arms has he ripped off? Have the police been informed?

Lucy McGough wrote:Whose arms has he ripped off? Have the police been informed?

Of his crimes against literature? They should be...

Hey, Geoff Johns isn't that bad.

Lucy McGough wrote:Hey, Geoff Johns isn't that bad.

Have you read Infinite Crisis?

I have people to do that sort of thing for me.